Free Will | Litsy

pan

Late for the readalong but figured I‘d finish it, and wish I‘d just chucked it. Repetitive but never particularly clear or convincing, Harris just seems to spitballing about something he kinda believes but can‘t convey. Not a great one, and if he were anybody else I don‘t think this would have gotten published at all.
#deadphilosopherssociety #adventuresinphilosophy

kspenmoll I would have bailed if not that we discussed it. Most times not sure how to respond! (edited) 3d

GingerAntics 100% agree… I‘m sorry we picked it, honestly. 3d

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

so-so

This book certainly gives one things to think about and starts conversations; however, it leaves some questions. Perhaps this is meant as a simple introduction - which it did, sort of - but there is definitely more to be covered and answers to be had that are not found in this book.
👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻

TheBookHippie

GingerAntics I was just expecting more actual discussion of how free will isn‘t real, but this seemed to sort of push through and say “trust me” on a lot. I can‘t help but feel a bit disappointed. #FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp 4w

TheBookHippie It infuriated me I had to bail 😫😬 4w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie this is the second Sam Harris book I‘ve read, and the second time I was disappointed by a Sam Harris book. Sorry bro, but I think I‘m done. 4w

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GingerAntics @TheBookHippie also, you probably didn‘t miss anything. 4w

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics my brain is mush and it was making me angry 😂 4w

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie that is fair. I think I managed to plow through with the audiobook and the ability to listen at 3x speed. 4w

kspenmoll @TheBookHippie I plowed thru but I could not tell you a word I read. Speaking of mush! 😂🤯 (edited) 3w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll it used a lot of words to not say much. 3w

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

GingerAntics Is this an intro to another book? I feel like there was very little explanation. I almost feel more confused than when we started. 4w

GingerAntics I seem to be disappointed in the Sam Harris books I read. Every single one is a like, but or an eh. 4w

kspenmoll I would have bailed but for your discussion questions! 3w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I struggled for discussion questions. I am not going to lie. 3w

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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Did anyone else feel like it ended abruptly? Maybe that‘s a separate question.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll There was a point where i was reading Hitler‘s People about Nazi movers & shakers & I thought they had free will & made choices, fully aware of what Hitler‘s & his minions‘ policies, despite denials post war.

Hitler's People: The Faces of the Third Reich

GingerAntics @kspenmoll he failed to define what he meant by free will, because that‘s a game changer. Did those people have choices, yes they did. Were they as open ended and free as one might hope? Probably not. Get on board or die isn‘t much of a choice, is it? It is, in fact, a choice though; and some people chose not to get on board. Sadly, they died so we have no idea if they later regretted that choice. 3w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll to say no one has any choices is obviously false. To say anyone can make any choice, that‘s also obviously false. Our choices are limited by socioeconomic status, gender, where we live, etc. So free will in the sense that anyone can make any choice at any time is false. He never said how he was using the term. He did make it out like a person who kills someone didn‘t make a choice (possibly from a selection of crappy choices anyway). 3w

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kspenmoll In the book, Sponsored
James Wyllie
Nazi Wives: The Women at the Top of Hitler's Germany, dome of the wives did survive & went to trial but few served much of a sentence- the West was too concerned with Communism. A few wrote about their allegiance to Hitler & still felt the same way towards him/his regime. (edited) 3w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll they didn‘t have the option to choose something different. In that day and age, your husband made the decision and did as you were told. To say they could have chosen to join a different party or something is giving women greater agency and control over their lives than they actually had. We‘re talking 1930s and 1940s. 3w

GingerAntics @kspenmoll oh yeah, some/many were die hard nazis, 100%. We just have to take into account that these women weren‘t really the decision makers involved. They were supposed to shut up and breed more little nazis. 3w

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kspenmoll

Free Will | Sam Harris

so-so

What can I say? I was & still am, totally confused by this book. If not for a group read #adventuresinphilosophy, this would be a DNR /bail for me. Thank you @GingerAntics for offering stimulating discussion questions which challenged me to think through some of the books ideas.

Cuilin, TheBookHippie, Chrissyreadit, JaclynW, ravenlee, AlaSkaat

GingerAntics I am on the edge about this book. I feel like it left things dangling. 4w

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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This ought to be an adventure. I cannot wait to reads these answers.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

TheBookHippie I will catch up 😅 1mo

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I think we are all feeling a little wonky and off at this point. We‘re lucky I‘ve kept up with this book since the election. 🤣😂🤣 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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I did accidentally read last week‘s chapter the well before, but I did come up with another question.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll All that you mentioned! 1mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll sadly, I feel there an amount of character development that is entirely out of control of the individual… up to a point. If you were raised poorly, as an adult you have to make the choice to learn differently. You also have to be free and choose to question your beliefs. Unfortunately, very few people actually do this. The genetics you can‘t really do anything about, though. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

I think I accidentally read/listened to this week‘s chapter last week, but I need to double check for sure. How is everyone doing so far this week?
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll I am behind, having trouble focusing- 1mo

AlaSkaat I am couple chapters behind! With my twins funeral and cremation and developing a womb infection!!! It‘s been the hardest past 8 weeks of my life. Life always gets in the way of our book discussions! I‘d love to finish this one but might be a little late 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat oh my God! I am SO sorry! We are so not important right now. We will discuss this whenever you want. Big digital hugs! I am so so sorry for what you‘re going through. We‘re here if you need to talk, or vent, or whatever. 🤗🤗🤗 1mo

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GingerAntics @kspenmoll same! I feel like I‘m just escaping and doing whatever I can to just ignore the madness. 1mo

kspenmoll @AlaSkaat Sending you love love love. I am so deeply sorry. 💕💕💕 1mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics @kspenmoll Thank you guys ❤️‍🩹 books are actually my escape atm so it‘s very helpful. But my mind is working slow so reading is going slow, but I‘ll get there 1mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat there is nothing wrong with that, just take your time. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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On this, the most stressful day (and probably week) of the year, how are you doing? Everyone getting some down time and taking care of themselves?
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

AlaSkaat Sorry I‘m a couple chapters behind! It‘s been such a rough month. I‘m going to have time to rest this weekend so I‘ll catch up then!! 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I‘m not so sure about that now. We just have to conclusion, but it may have to wait a few weeks. We‘ll see what everyone says. 1mo

ravenlee I‘ve been having one of the most difficult months of my life…and then the election happened. Sorry I haven‘t been present for the read. 1mo

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GingerAntics @ravenlee it‘s definitely been a month or so! That election certainly didn‘t help anything. Ugh! I‘m keep hoping there is some kind of irregularity found or something (ANYthing), but I know there won‘t be. It‘s just so hard to give up on hope. 1mo

kspenmoll @ravenlee I have been in & out myself & behind in reading. Sending you hugs- & hope that despite the election, your personal life gets better. 💖 1mo

kspenmoll I am behind like everyone else… 1mo

GingerAntics It‘s a good time to be behind. I‘m glad we scheduled specifically to have wiggle room. We will get through this together. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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This one is a real thinker.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll No it would not. Harris says a few things such as “The urge for retribution depends on our not seeing underlying causes of human behavior.”(55) 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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I have to say, this one made me chuckle. It would be fun, wouldn‘t it?
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

GingerAntics Eph charging COVID! Let‘s charge the president elect! (For all the good that absolutely will NOT do 🙄sigh) 1mo

kspenmoll @GingerAntics Totally agree! 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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This one really made me stop and think for a minute… or 20… I even had to look up the actual definition of psychopath.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll Yes I think there can be psychopaths- lack of free will does not negate behavior that hurts/harms society. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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Here we go, kids. I‘m hoping our sparking conversations can distract me today, but I‘m thinking I‘m going to pull a teenager today and just have my headphones on all bleeding day?!
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll Keep those headphones on! 1mo

kspenmoll I have to read the chapter on Moral Responsibility- behind 1mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll eh, the chapters aren‘t too involved, so no biggie. Headphones on, smutty, escapist books on repeat, animal crossing in front of my face. I‘m still in the hide and deny stage, I think. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

Sorry guys! I‘m sucking at life right now. I will post later today. I need anything to distract me from the dramatic wait to find it if I need to have my tubes tied and start putting in applications for political asylum.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

Cuilin It‘s going to be a rough few days. Hang in there. 💗 2mo

CBee Sending love to you - I totally understand 😥😥 2mo

GingerAntics @Cuilin @CBee I‘m trying to take it one step at a time. Step 1: no more 🤬🤬🤬ing political ads. I‘ve started singing Dave Barnes‘s Little Lies over them. 2mo

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GingerAntics UPDATE: all of the places I need to call about getting my tubes tied before January doesn‘t open until 9. Seriously people? I have stuff to do today and you are only the beginning. 1mo

GingerAntics @Cuilin it ended SO quickly! It was terrifying. It was like a replay of 2016… just worse! 1mo

kspenmoll @GingerAntics @Cuilin We are in the same place…love & community- I love the singing of Little Lies- we are not watching news right now. 1mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll girl, I am avoiding the news like the bleeding plague! Half of it is just “who knew America was so sexist and racist?” I just want to bang my head on the wall and run away to my animal crossing island. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

I felt like the point he made about reading was perfect for us.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll Read to learn, to grow, to change, to expose myself to other‘s perspectives & ideas, to escape! 1mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll girl, I am still entirely in the escapism zone! What makes you choose to read for those purposes, though. Maybe a better answer, what makes you choose to read at all? 1mo

kspenmoll @GingerAntics Deep thinking question. I grew up being read to, surrounded by book & generations of readers,had free access to parental books,(how I found Agatha Christie so young), weekly library visits…books as Christmas/birthday gifts…we still exchange books with the younger generation- shared books & discussed them with my closest cousin/brother when he was diagnosed with melanoma & died🔽 (edited) 1mo

kspenmoll Within a year- the night before he died in his sleep I gave him a book -he read until the end. So maybe I can say that for me it was more of a milieu I was immersed in, I did not think about choice; it was who a was, a book. 1mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll whatever you gave him must have been that good, that he needed to know how it ended. What a wonderful, special memory. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

Sorry, guys. I had these ready to go on my phone, then I fell asleep for the rest of the weekend. I hope everyone‘s Monday is going well.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

GingerAntics Oh, the stories I have about being told how to control my thoughts. Of course, the beyond trite idea of prayer as a means to control one‘s mind. More like, allowing the person giving the advice to control one‘s mind. 🙄 2mo

kspenmoll Yes, societies institutions, families, etc. especially when young,pass down their beliefs as written in stone. 1mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll 100%! It‘s actually terrifying to see the amount of indoctrination small children face on a daily basis. No one calls it that, though, until the beliefs being indoctrinated disagree with those of the parents‘ beliefs. 1mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

What choices do you really have?
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll Again, not sure I fully grasp Harris‘s take on free will but given the state of our country at the moment, I have to think that while I may have no free will in some areas with the coming president, I have to hope I can protest & act freely in ways I can - 1mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I‘m sorry, but I just do not believe that some people are just hard wired to vote for evil and the downfall of a nation. I‘m not. Choices have been made here, and those choices could have been something else. I feel like we need Harris to give us a very clear definition of “free will” as he is using it in this text. 1mo

kspenmoll @GingerAntics I totally agree with you! That‘s why I have had such trouble wrapping my mind around his thinking/words. People have made clear choices, that‘s what voting is. Not voting is a choice as well- with the exception of discriminatory practices. We have this 2025 administration because people chose. 1mo

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kspenmoll

Free Will | Sam Harris

Morning cappuccino & a book before I go off to meet up with my sister- such a gorgeous day- not a cloud in the sky, bright blue, interrupted only by the yellows,reds, oranges, & browns of the trees. #philosophy #adventuresinphilosophy #freewill
Will be back later today to check in with #buddyreads

GingerAntics

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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This is seriously all I‘ve got.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll Just connecting free will with the books I was reading

Hitler's People: The Faces of the Third Reich

2mo

kspenmoll And confusion. 2mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll it does get very complicated. 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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This was such a short chapter.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll This book is so small but I feel like I am flailing in the dark. My initial idea was no, animals do not have free will but then I think of all the bears roaming around -how do they choose which garbage can to get into? Smell? Past success? Some of my cats behaviors seem to be habit, but what about when they choose to show up for a snuggle- its not predictable & not about food. So are they making some choices/ free will lead decisions? 🤯🤔😺🥴 2mo

kspenmoll And what about the sea,trees,plants that nurture us as we nurture them.I feel such a part of the earth,life when I am in the sea, by the sea, gardening-I have missed my connection to my garden because i have not been able to be in it since the spring of 2023 when my shoulder caused intense pain-right handed,right shoulder/bicep surgery 9/7/23.My surgeon thinks I will be able to really dig etc next spring. Does my garden feel my abandonment? 2mo

kspenmoll Free will ? All sentient beings? 2mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll there isn‘t a readily available answer, is there? Cats have limited options, but they will do whatever they want within those options, even/especially if told not to. I think if anyone has free will, it‘s cats. This is my new philosophical position on free will. Only cats truly have free will. Prove me wrong! 2mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll ouch! I hope you can get back to your garden in the spring. I don‘t know if it misses you, but I wonder if it thinks it‘s just having a nap or something. 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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I have seriously missed these conversations where we grapple with these ideas! Welcome back, ladies!
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

TheBookHippie I‘ll be in tomorrow! Just home from mountain adventures. 2mo

kspenmoll I will be in later this week- sorry for the delay. 2mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I‘ve been an animal crossing addict this week. We‘re lucky I remembered to read at all. lol 2mo

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie oh, I hope you had fun! 2mo

TheBookHippie @GingerAntics I did and now finished all my doctoring 😅😂🤣even a mammogram so I can catch up my posting!!! 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

AlaSkaat When he talks of our bodies working for us, rather than us making those decisions. Do we decide to get sick? It reminded me of law of attraction, where people ‘cured‘ their illness 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I don‘t think people choose illness - consciously or unconsciously. I think that‘s about the natural systems of the body being disrupted by things from outside those systems. You are making me think about the belief in free will and that people have far more control over their health than they really do. 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

AlaSkaat This part was very interesting to me! Do criminals really not get that ‘shouldn‘t do this‘ thought at all? Does it really not occur to people not to do something that can harm others? 2mo

AlaSkaat His example with water got me thinking. It seems like at any available moment, we have only a few selected thoughts/choices entering our brain. When thinking of what to drink, we don‘t automatically think ‘pickle juice‘ right? Why? Something has to happen for us to think of it. Water and thirst has a connection in our mind. But we‘re still free to think/drink whatever but why doesn‘t it cross our mind? 2mo

AlaSkaat So I‘d say we are ‘free‘ to make that choice, but are we able to? 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I think water and thirst are definitely hard wired into all mammals, including humans. When I‘m thirsty, though, my choices are dictated by several factors I don‘t have any control over. I have to make sure I‘m not going to throw off my electrolytes. Water by itself causes GI issues since I was on that evil wegovy. What I have access to in that moment. 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I feel like some criminals do that that thought and others don‘t. I think it depends on previous experiences and what was modelled for them as children. None of those things are really in their control. It does bring up the question of how/when can we hold people accountable for their actions and the choices they made within the limited options available to them. This chapter really got me thinking. 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

AlaSkaat That‘s an interesting question. I‘d say it‘s because they were exposed to new experiences which allows them to make new thoughts/choices that in turn allows them to act differently. And yet, some people who have done this, have done so just on their own, simply by having had enough. So nothing ‘new‘ came into play. The ‘had enough‘ - is that new? Or is it that they all felt it but only one felt they could do something about it? What was different? (edited) 2mo

AlaSkaat He said ‘I‘m not free to do which does not occur to me‘ which is what we‘ve already said in past posts. You can‘t do what you don‘t know exist. But how do people know they can leave a bad situation then, if everyone else in the past stayed? Even if they met someone who left and it opened up their mind to that, how did THAT person know they can do that? 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat right? I feel like every answer we have, leads to another question. 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

AlaSkaat I can‘t make up my mind about my opinion about this. I believe in cause and effect. My logical mind cannot comprehend making a choice that I never was exposed to before. So I sort of believe that we are governed by physical laws and such. But not that we are totally helpless as to our choices 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I definitely agree with this. Don‘t even get me started on cause and effect. I had a prof that had WAY too much fun with the question “is cause and effect real” for an entire semester. 🤯🤯🤯 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll I will come back to these questions later this week- 2mo

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kspenmoll

Free Will | Sam Harris

My #weeklyforecast

Row 1: Buddy Reads- Bring Me Your Midnight #sundaybuddyread ; Quiet as a Nun #nunlit ; Free Will #SamHarris #freewill #philosophy
Row 2-3: Currently reading- Death of a Pumpkin Carver #seasonalcozies; Hitler‘s People #nonfiction; Run Towards Danger #memoir; Death in August #librarybook #mystery #The Universe in Verse #poetry; Sun Storm #audible
I am a mood reader, hence all the books!!!!

TheBookHippie, jlhammar, GingerAntics, julieclair

julieclair I think you have managed to find a book for every mood! 😀 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

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#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

ravenlee Yes, but we have to remember that we don‘t all start from the same point, so the options I have are different from yours, based on my past experiences and privilege. 2mo

kspenmoll I agree with what you have just stated @ravenlee Not sure what Harris means when he ends the chapter with “You ate not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm” metaphor for what? I seem to be missing something here. 2mo

AlaSkaat @kspenmoll this part really confused me too 2mo

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AlaSkaat @ravenlee I agree! And like my comments on previous posts, it is all based on experiences. There is no manual we are born with that our brains know how to follow, it‘s just a game really of what we pick up when growing up. I guess it isn‘t really conscious then, just random 2mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll that was confusing. I really hope he elaborates on that further. 2mo

GingerAntics @ravenlee 100%! I think this is what a lot of highly privileged people forget. In some (many?) cases, they are taught the belief that everyone starts from the same place (birth), so everyone has the same choices. It‘s not their fault if other people choose differently. 2mo

GingerAntics @ravenlee which is a serious over simplification of life, of course. 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat it does feel very random, doesn‘t it? How come many people are born into a dirt poor families, but a select few are born into rich families? Is it because the rich folks can afford birth control? Is that really all there is to it? It really makes the idea of a “loving, all knowing god” laughable. Why would this living entity choose for most people to struggle under the few who only act in their own best interest? 2mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics do Christians and people of other religions believe in free will? Can it exist with their idea of God? You often hear them say ‘it‘s Gods plan‘. Does that mean they‘re mere puppets and so they really think they‘re not responsible for anything in their life? 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

This post contains spoilers

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#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

ravenlee Well, saying no feels disingenuous. Sure, we all have thoughts that seem to come from nowhere, and some of them are even taboo. But would we accept a child pornographer excusing their actions because they couldn‘t help their bad thoughts? 2mo

kspenmoll I think to a certain extent we are responsible, but it seems Harris seems to be saying that our physical brain knows our thoughts/actions before our conscious thoughts- I do not think we should excuse any immoral actions because they are not able to help their bad thoughts. @ravenlee 2mo

AlaSkaat I have mixed opinions about this. I believe that experience influences our mental states. It‘s basically a program in our minds. The cause and effect. But that‘s not to say it Cannot be changed. 2mo

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AlaSkaat I think it‘s a tough question to answer. As some people really have had no good experience and can‘t even tell Right from Wrong. We aren‘t born just knowing any of this, our brain build connections and those connections make those thoughts, it‘s a difficult one 2mo

GingerAntics @ravenlee I‘ve had a similar thought. If someone is a pedophile, but chooses not to act on his/her desires and that attraction to children exists only in their minds: is that something that allowable? Is that something the person has control over? I think the action on the thought is the important part and the only place we can say a person is free to make a choice. 2mo

GingerAntics @ravenlee I think this gets dangerous. I‘m attracted to men. I don‘t know why. A lot of men are way more trouble than their worth. Given the choice, I might actually choose some alternative. I have a friend who is bi. I‘ve got a coworker who is gay. We don‘t believe they have choices in the matter. So if someone is a pedophile, but chooses not to act on that, is there another choice they can make? Is conversation therapy an option for this person? (edited) 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat exactly! This is where I struggle with the victim of generational abuse who continues the cycle versus another that chooses to break it. How much of that is a choice? Does one have more access to therapy and/or other supports than the other? Does that make them superior to one who doesn‘t? 2mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll I agree with this. I have horrible thoughts all the time. I choose not to act on them because I know they are wrong (but sometimes it‘s fun to react to another assassination attempt on Trump‘s life with “thoughts and prayers” 🤷🏼‍♀️). The thoughts themselves are proven to be good outlets and most of us never act on the thoughts, but some people do. 2mo

GingerAntics @kspenmoll we literally have laws that say if a person does not understand their criminal actions were wrong when they committed them, they either can‘t be sent to jail, they can‘t be charged, or their sentence must be different in some way. They are meant to protect mentally handicapped persons, but does not being taught an action is wrong (say theft if it‘s that or starve?) count? What is the limit to that? 2mo

AlaSkaat The last comment! I was watching Law&Order SVU a while ago, the whole show. And how angry I got!! Every defence ! I couldn‘t believe that actually happens. ‘Because this happened to me years ago, I am not responsible now‘ and so much more. The law is of the opinion that we have no free will 2mo

AlaSkaat And acting on our thoughts. How some choose to act on them and some not. What about alcoholic parents. One child end up an alcoholic, another drinks none. What happened in their brain? They were exposed to the same situation, why did one decide not to follow suit? 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

This post contains spoilers

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Let the games begin!
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

ravenlee Yes, but what exactly we mean by “free will” isn‘t clear. I believe in having the ability to choose among various options before me, and how and why I make my choices is unique to me and different from any other person. There is no cosmic figure directing my choices like some mystic puppeteer. 2mo

kspenmoll Yes, but I have just accepted the idea & not questioned it. I have already sticky noted every page- much to think about, mull over. 2mo

AlaSkaat Yes and no. I guess what‘s exactly meant by free will. I believe we have a choice, but that choice is based on everything we know/experienced. We cannot make a choice that we don‘t know exist, but to me that‘s not free will. This is super confusing for me ! 2mo

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GingerAntics @kspenmoll I think that‘s how most people come to a belief in free will. It‘s just what you believe in because it‘s what we are told is true. 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat it is a trip! I always say that I believe a person is only free to make choices based on the available options for them. Does a kid in the inner city have a choice to not join a gang? Everyone‘s in one. If you‘re not in one, who is protecting you from the gangs? The few who choose not to join, they‘re on their own. We can talk about support groups or whatever, but then that becomes another gang. 2mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat does a poor person really have the choice to save money? If every dollar you make has to go to survival, it‘s not a choice. You can‘t choose not to pay rent or eat or keep the lights on to save some money just in case (like not having food or the lights getting turned off or being evicted). 2mo

GingerAntics @ravenlee this is the best part of philosophy! How is each person defining the term? Harris says we don‘t have free will, but what does he mean by that? Is it the same as another philosopher? Is it the same way you use the word. 2mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics oh interesting you say that a poor person has no choice to save money!! I am of the opposite opinion on this and think they STILL have the choice to, but choose not to because of rent/food. They choose nutrition over starvation. It‘s a choice. Even if some are not fully conscious by us. Ultimately we still all choose one over the other 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

Nothing kicks off a great book like a horrific murder of all but one member of a family on your birthday in 2007! I think I‘m going to need a stiff drink.
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

kspenmoll Apologies-waiting for this book! 2mo

kspenmoll Book arrived cannot believe he is writing about the Petit murders- he was my brother in laws MD, well known in CT, approximately 24 miles from where I live. I have friends in the community.Utterly devastating. I have to stop reading & collect myself. Totally unexpected. 2mo

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GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

Our next adventure is starting this Sunday! Who is ready?
#FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp

AlaSkaat I‘ve been in the hospital for a week. Can‘t wait to have a small distraction!! Excited to start a new discussion 3mo

TheBookHippie My book finally arrived today 😝🤪🤣😵‍💫🫣😅 OFF to read it. It‘s a tiny thing! 3mo

TheBookHippie @AlaSkaat oh dear I hope you‘re okay! 3mo

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GingerAntics @AlaSkaat oh no! I hope everyone is okay! 3mo

GingerAntics @TheBookHippie I got through this week‘s reading rather quickly. I was wondering what the book actually looked like, size wise. 3mo

kspenmoll @AlaSkaat I am so sorry! I hope your recovery is an easy one. Take care of yourself! 2mo

AlaSkaat @TheBookHippie @GingerAntics @kspenmoll thank you guys! A devastating week. Sorry for being the downer here !! Sadly, I went into early labour and my baby twins passed on Saturday. Poor souls were too little to survive at just 5 months. It‘s been heartbreaking. I‘m going to turn to books for some comfort and solace for the next while, so I will be involved more in our discussions from now on!! Definitely glad for them now! 2mo

TheBookHippie @AlaSkaat I‘m so so sorry. Sending you so much love & light. I‘ve been there 3 times. It‘s not easy. Take care of you. (edited) 2mo

AlaSkaat Thank you and I‘m sorry you also had to experience that. 2mo

11 likes9 comments

GingerAntics

Free Will | Sam Harris

I did a bit of a quote turn around for this one, so that we can be done before Thanksgiving, and then we can start up again in the new year, maybe the 3rd Sunday of January 2025. That will give us plenty of time for catching up, the holidays, a little rest, and then picking up our intellectual heavy lifting. Let me know your thoughts.

TheBookHippie

GingerAntics #FreeWill #SamHarris #Philosophy #AdventuresInPhilosophy #DeadPhilosophersSociety
@TheBookHippie @ravenlee @JaclynW @RavenLovelyReads @AlaSkaat @Chrissyreadit @kspenmoll @bnp 3mo

TheBookHippie Looks good! 3mo

AlaSkaat That works for me! I‘ll try to keep on schedule this time 🤞 got the book coming Monday 3mo

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ravenlee Looks good! I‘m looking forward to rejoining the group. 3mo

GingerAntics @ravenlee welcome back my friend! 3mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat oh, we‘ve all gotten off track a time or two! You‘re in good company! 3mo

AlaSkaat I‘ve just read the I guess Introduction? to the book and I‘m already excited for this! I‘m currently making my way through The selfish Gene and it‘s interesting to connect those two, from what I‘ve read so far of how genes make us. 3mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat is there a selfish gene? It can run in families, but then a selfish parent pushes all their kids to be decent human beings in other families. 3mo

AlaSkaat @GingerAntics he doesn‘t talk so much about our behaviour or motives. Basically says how we are all ‘robots‘ for a gene thats causing us to behave in such ways that increases it‘s survival.(culture&environment do play role but he focuses on the evolution of the gene), -Mothers saving kids, not so much altruistic or saving her ‘line‘ but saving their gene that‘s inside them, so the act in evolution sense is selfish 3mo

AlaSkaat He‘s of the opinion that evolution is about survival of the individual (the gene) and not the species (the group). Which is often what‘s said. He explains a lot, it‘s really interesting, especially when combined with the free will 3mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat wow, that feels almost nihilistic to me. Then how does he explain people saving children that aren‘t their own? It feels like he‘s more selfish than evolution or genetics. By his argument, eugenics is not only inevitable but acceptable. Gross. 3mo

AlaSkaat He explains that too! I don‘t remember much now but he doesn‘t mean we‘re actual robots, haha. Just that through evolution, this gene fought to survive. In scientific sense it‘s selfish because it HAS to be selfish to survive. And saving random people in that sense PRESERVES that gene too. So the gene will kill itself if it can keep it alive through another ‘robot‘ to pass on. It‘s not just our individual genes. It‘s inside all living things 3mo

AlaSkaat I haven‘t got very far in the book yet, otherwise I‘d explain it better. I‘m not good at explaining scientific stuff haha 3mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat that‘s fair. He is going way out there from what I can tell. Is it a specific gene or just humanity in general, genetically speaking? 3mo

AlaSkaat Ok so basically he just talks of natural selection- and a gene has to have these qualities to survive- longevity, fecundity, copying fidelity. And so between altruism and selfishness, altruistic gene would not survive, it wouldn‘t go on for generations for obvious reasons. (Like long legs gene if favoured in dangerous situations, but short legs in other) 3mo

AlaSkaat So one of many attributes of a ‘good‘ gene then is selfishness. I‘m super confused wether he means actual selfishness or if a specific gene has to be selfish. I‘m super confused by what I‘m reading haha 3mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat it sounds like he‘s talking about genes that actively try to get themselves passed on. Since genes done have feelings or even morality of their own, so I don‘t think they are selfish in that sense. I‘m thinking he‘s just using a colloquial term (however emotionally charged for some of us - especially women). 3mo

GingerAntics @AlaSkaat I could be totally wrong, too, though. I‘m just going off what you‘re telling me. Maybe he‘s a total twat and he‘s saying this is why ugly people don‘t procreate. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 3mo

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ravenlee

Free Will | Sam Harris

Today‘s #bookmail - I‘m hoping to get back into #deadphilosopherssociety with this one. 🤞🏻 I have not done well with scheduled reading for the past year or so, and now I‘m especially caught up in daily Substacks about the current political nightmare…I mean situation. And that leaves less time for books, unfortunately.

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obviateit

Free Will | Sam Harris

#day10 #puppet #quotsynov20

TK-421

TheNeverendingTBR Absolutely 4y

20 likes1 comment

sebsebseb

Free Will | Sam Harris

Genre: Educational
Author: Sam Harris
Date Started: 12/19/2019
Date Completed: 12/120/2019
How did you choose this book: Found it online, it seemed really interesting.
Write a brief summary of the novel:
The book talks about how free will is just an illusion. It talks about how, sure, you can do things consciously, but everything you do consciously is the determined by the causes that were out of your control.

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taning

Free Will | Sam Harris

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Sam Harris is a great philosopher

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