Sapphira and the Slave Girl

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

This photo from April was in my main Instagram account (melissajayne80) 9 top for 2020 and out of this pile for April‘s #deweysreadathon, I managed to read all but 2 of these books by the end of the year (the two that I didn‘t get were The Address and The City of Girls).

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Graywacke

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

pick

Our latest #catherbuddyread ... an oddly nostalgic look at the world of slavery.

That is such a strange, and wrong, sentence. And yet I actually liked this novel quite a bit, and I liked that Cather is looking at her parents‘ era, reminding us how close we are to this seriously messed up world. The novel has problems, and it strains our sensibilities, but it also has that Cather voice and integrity. (And brought up great discussions.)

CarolynM Great review🙂 4y

batsy I didn't read this one but nicely put about the Cather voice and integrity. It's what makes the problematic elements in her novels worth mulling over and discussing. 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM thanks! 🙂 4y

Graywacke @batsy completely agree. 4y

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Graywacke

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

Sapphira and the Slave Girl - Book vii to ix
#catherbuddyread

Nancy‘s escape, diphtheria and an epilogue with “I”. We get a look at an aspect of the Underground Railroad and then see how Sapphira responds, Then Nancy‘s return is in 1st person, and, even as it‘s fictional, it reminds us Cather was born in Winchester Va (in the house pictured) and so close to this era. Also, good grief, it creates nostalgia (!). Wait, this isn‘t a nice story. ⬇️⬇️

Graywacke What...what...um...hang on... WTF (😳) do you make of all this? Thoughts on the big picture? 4y

Graywacke Also, where do we go next? Our small group is pretty flexible. I personally have Cather‘s short stories and Alexander‘s Bridge on the shelf. But it might be time for @Lcsmcat ‘s biography idea - each reader picks one and we share. Think ahead. It will be at least mid January before we start - I think. 4y

Graywacke Also - while I‘m here - thanks everyone for another wonderful year of Cather. I really like her as an author, but this experience has been rich and rewarding and made this so memorable. So thank you 🙏 😊 4y

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Lcsmcat @Graywacke Thank you for organizing it and for putting forth such great things to think about. 4y

Lcsmcat I‘m really puzzling over this one. I understand that her health was not good as she wrote this last novel, which may explain the unfinished feel. But I wonder - could it have been more that she was conflicted about how to handle the subject matter? There‘s the nostalgia of the stories she grew up with. But then she grows up and has a more realistic view of the past, without the rose colored glasses. She seems to bounce back and forth a bit in this 4y

Lcsmcat She clearly shows the no-win situation Nancy was in, and the inhumanity of slavery. Then has everyone getting along just fine, former slaves not wanting to leave (!) and Nancy coming to visit and fitting right in, although from the description of her voice and manner you‘d think it would be a very awkward reunion. 4y

Lcsmcat So - that‘s my long-winded way of saying that the story doesn‘t hold together as well as her others, but is it because she ran out of time/energy, or because she couldn‘t decide which story to write? 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat first: you‘re welcome and thanks for being such a key part of it the whole way. 🙂 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat second: - unfinished? Awkward? Hmm. Not sure about that. It felt consistent to me. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Let me try to explain (that‘s supposed to be an opening for criticism ☺️). I think the last chapter is the first chapter - and the rest was how it came to that. This then is a close look a plantation life without contemporary judgment - that is, in my head, she presents a way of life and “argues” it‘s meaningful simply because that‘s how we got “here”. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I‘m really curious to know other opinions about this. !! 🙂 4y

Lcsmcat Unfinished in the sense of unpolished, not needing another chapter. And yes, the Epilogue is the beginning (some even claim the “I” is Cather) and I get the nostalgia, and the “how we got here.” One of my grandfathers would occasionally tell stories of “Uncle Bill”, a black man working his father‘s farm, and there was both real affection and real racism, side by side in those stories. And it‘s hard to portray that complexity in print. ⬇️ 4y

Lcsmcat ⬆️ We prefer all good/all bad dichotomy. So I want to see that complexity in Cather‘s story. And I think she does a better job of it with Henry and even Sapphira than the other characters. Rachel and Martin are opposites, but equally one sided. Cather is capable of writing such complex and realistic characters that I was left feeling like she wasn‘t finished with these yet. (edited) 4y

emilyhaldi It did feel like the epilogue was written from Cather‘s POV almost, which I enjoyed. I wonder if she wasn‘t so much conflicted about the subject matter but just expressing the web of complications that stemmed from slavery and the era. I appreciated that Sampson and Nancy were both able to leave eventually and be successful as free people, but I found it understandable that they were frightened to leave initially. The farm was all they ever knew. 4y

emilyhaldi And of course the discrimination against them didn‘t end even once they were free. So that era was challenging in so many ways... such a long road to break away from slavery and the prejudices that were held at the time. But ultimately I think Sapphira loved them as best she could. I‘m not sure she even agreed that owning slaves was the right thing, but she was always struggling to maintain status and power 🤔 4y

emilyhaldi I‘m just thinking out loud here, clearly 😆 thank you @Graywacke for hosting!!! I had never read any Cather prior to this group and I find her writing to be fascinating! 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat ok, good points. Completely agree about Martin and Rachel. Rachel was underdone and the epilogue gave us no more insight. She‘s also a little too perfect. Martin - I thought she captured his charm early, but his single-minded harassment - he was a caricature at that point. Very un-Cather. 4y

Graywacke @emilyhaldi wait, this (!) was your first Cather? Oh, E, we need to fill you in. 😆 - no, wait, seriously. This one is better for completionists. Her prime writing over wwi and the 1920‘s is really special, some of my favorite stuff. (I‘m pretty sure there is a group consensus on that). 4y

Graywacke @emilyhaldi having said all that - really curious on your perspective on this. 4y

Graywacke @emilyhaldi oops. Missed your 1st two posts. Sorry. Cather doesn‘t touch on post-slavery experiences of racism. She has a black character in My Ántonia that I think about a lot. She puts no awareness of racism in his story either. But then she writes about “feminists” in a anti-feminist world who have no awareness of this anti-feminist-ness around them. That is she doesn‘t bark at the conventional atmospheres, even as her characters defy them. ⬇️ (edited) 4y

Graywacke @emilyhaldi also I think you touch on why many slaves chose to stay on after freedom. (This is what they knew and was safe, and likely the right decision in cases.) (edited) 4y

Graywacke @emilyhaldi one last comment - the first time i saw the “I”, I was kind of jolted into a different perspective. (Then the end note forced me to rethink it all again.) (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat @emilyhaldi Do you think Sapphira even _thought_ about slavery in terms of right or wrong? I agree that she loved them in her way - a pretty harsh way, like her treatment of her daughter - and that status and power were important to her. But I don‘t see her as a thinking character. She was so pragmatic, even after her illness kept her from being physically active, that I saw her as a “doer” more than a “thinker.” She thought in terms of ⬇️ (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat ⬆️ getting a result. Not to explore ideas. 4y

Currey @emilyhaldi The I was jolting for me also. And I had this interesting anger at Cather for not telling me what happened to Martin and then being equally angry when she did, as it tied it up too neatly. I think that a large reason for people not being able to leave after slavery was pure economics. There were no jobs for uneducated people that had very specific skills that did not translate well off the plantations. (edited) 4y

Currey @Lcsmcat I joined the group only half way through but I think you are correct that Cather was not as sure of herself in this book. I did find Henry and Till to be complex but even Sapphira seemed too simple for a Cather character and I agree that Rachel and Martin were just set up as the good and the bad. (edited) 4y

emilyhaldi Lol @Graywacke well I hadn‘t read her before your group introduced me earlier this year.. I also joined in for Archebishop and Lucy Gayheart (one of my fav reads this year I think!). Which one do you recommend I prioritize to read next?! 4y

emilyhaldi It‘s a good question @Lcsmcat and I think since we saw that the rest of the family was exploring their own thoughts on slave ownership and feeling conflicted I just assumed Sapphira had to be exploring some of the issue herself. When Rachel helped Nancy to escape I felt Sapphy‘s anger was over betrayal from her daughter but was there a part of her that knew it was the right thing to do?? I‘m not sure she could see past her own ego and pride. 4y

Lcsmcat @Currey Martin‘s end did seem more like “what I wish had happened” than “what did happen” to me, too. 4y

Lcsmcat @emilyhaldi I felt like S‘s reaction to Nancy leaving was from injured pride. She told people that Nancy was in Chestnut Hill and would come back “when sent for.” And Rachel, when she receives the letter breaking ties muses “she was sorry to have brought another humiliation to someone who had already lost so much.” 4y

Graywacke @emilyhaldi of course. I was confused I guess. Archbishop is a good first one, maybe her best but also unlike any others. I can safely recommend everything before. 🙂 If you are looking just for something to try, her short novels are terrific - A Lost Lady and My Mortal Enemy. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @emilyhaldi @Currey Sapphira as a not thinking character is an interesting comment. It‘s possible she does things to Nancy without realizing she‘s jealous or without realizing she‘s doing anything. Interesting. 4y

Graywacke Sapphira‘s pride seems a central theme of this book. Her handicap and the irony of the almost flipped dependence with her slaves - yet She maintains a dignity - seems reflect many other aspects of her life and this story.(But she puts it all aside to help her grandchildren when they are in real need.) (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Pride does seem to be her defining characteristic. And the kind of pride that is afraid of being humiliated is often rooted in insecurity, which fits her, too. 4y

Currey @Lcsmcat @Graywacke @emilyhaldi I found it interesting that Cather led us to understand a bit of what was going on between Henry and Nancy. Nancy needing someone who saw her and knew she did a good job. Henry happy to experience her joy and getting something from knowing his own impact on her. And then how Henry is frightened by the Colbert blood when he sees that Nancy could be a sexual being to Martin. ⬇️ 4y

Currey ⬆️ Cather, on the other hand, does not give us Sapphira‘s point of view regarding Nancy. We know her actions and we assume the motivations but never really get to understand exactly what is happening. Pride explains much. And I was surprised how she reacted to her grandchildren‘s sickness. 4y

CarolynM You all make good points @Graywacke @Lcsmcat @emilyhaldi @Currey In some ways this feels to me like an outline for a novel. The characters are less complex and the story less compelling than I am used to from Cather. I thought there were less descriptive passages too. If she'd been well I imagine she would have spent more time developing her characters and refining her story👇 4y

CarolynM Maybe, rather than being conflicted about how to present the issues, she was trying to give us both sides if the argument. Sapphira the representative of the old South, proud of her family and their position and preserving the way of life she had grown up with, Henry and Rachel representing more progressive ideas taking hold in other parts of the country. 👇 4y

CarolynM I think also Cather is pointing out that most people prefer what they know over the Unknown. Samson's reasons for not wanting freedom, Henry's reflection in Book VII that no "ragged, shag-haired, squirrel-shooting mountain man" would trade places with his well fed and well treated slaves, Rachel's recognition later in the same Book that Canada was a vague idea even to her.? 4y

CarolynM The story of the children's illness and the differences in treatment offered by the two doctors was interesting to me too. I wonder if it was intended as some sort of allegory - each having a different understanding of what was the right thing to do. I do think that we have to remember how much our understanding changes over time. I am sure that future generations will look back and find us blinkered and ignorant. 4y

CarolynM Thanks, Dan, for your magnificent hosting of this group, and to all the group members for your thoughtful contributions. You have all given me a lot to think about over the last couple of years and helped me to a greater understanding and appreciation of Cather. 4y

Louise @Graywacke et.al. Sorry to have missed this discussion. I‘m behind in my reading! To Dan‘s question about “what next?”, my vote would be to read and discuss Cather‘s short stories before moving on to other authors/topics. I hope this group will continue beyond the finish of Cather‘s works. These discussions have been marvelous, and it would be great to keep them going! Happy Holidays to all! (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat @Louise I agree, I‘d love to keep this group going after Cather. We do still have Alexander‘s Bridge, her first novel, to read and lots of short stories. 4y

Lcsmcat @CarolynM I think you‘re on to something, maybe Cather was trying to show both sides, and if she‘d written it at the height of her creative power might have been successful. 4y

Lcsmcat @CarolynM I‘ll have to ponder the 2 doctors some more. I took it at face value- the wealthy and ill S would have a better doctor. But this is Cather, so there could be depths to the choice. 4y

jewright @Currey I think she realized her grudge was petty. She realized she needed to do something to help. Then once she reached out, it was easy to offer for them to stay the winter. 4y

jewright @CarolynM I found this interesting especially considering our crazy circumstances today. I really wonder how we will look back on this time in 50 years. We now know so much better, and I‘m sure that will be the case as time continues. 4y

jewright @Graywacke Thanks for leading this group. I have loved exploring Cather with you all for a year and a half. She was never my favorite in high and college, but I really have grown to love her works over the reading for the group. I vote for continuing Cather. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat insecurity and pride go together. And insecurity is a kind of fear which leads to hate which leads to Sapphira‘s rather complex relationship with Nancy. Thinking this through, Sapphira‘s best moments in the book come after Nancy‘s escape. Maybe it was good for Sapphira! 4y

Graywacke @Currey two thoughts. First I think there was a lot more say about Henry, but he was frozen in place (until the epilogue). He was (maybe?) a interesting thinker. Second your comment on our not getting S‘s view of N is consistent with @Lcsmcat ‘s comments of S as a doer not a thinker. (So her view is maybe unworked out in her own head?) Anyway, interesting insights. 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM on the two sides - what I found interesting was that Henry was against slavery and yet couldn‘t do anything about his own slaves. (Whereas in a way, S was master of her world). I agree Cather made an effort not to condemn slave holders or to sensationalize slavery (try getting away with that in a novel today!) She really tried to be balanced. ⬇️ 4y

Graywacke In week one I posted “Cather is interested in lives within larger forces - trapped within”. I was hesitant then, but it‘s what i keep thinking about now and it‘s so present here - Henry struggling and S embracing this world - yet both are really only trying to be good and make the best of it. 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM @Lcsmcat the doctors! Much to say there on economies, self-deluded quackery, traditional medicine and the knowledge of the era. Especially interesting to me was how knowledgeable the good doctor was in the backward 1850‘s US world. I hope Cather was accurate there. As for the two sides - i have to think that through more too. Please share you 💡thoughts. 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM and, finally, thanks for being such a big part of our group! 4y

Graywacke @Louise I‘m certainly open to the short stories next. Anyone else want to chime in? @Lcsmcat @CarolynM @batsy ? And @jewright - yes, definitely I want to continue. !! 4y

Graywacke @jewright @Currey on S responding to her grandchildren - nothing to add except that I found that interesting. No Hamlet hesitation, no torturous concerns on undermining her core values, she just does, as if “of course” 4y

Graywacke @jewright finally thanks for being a big part of this. 4y

Graywacke What a great conversation here. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I think S wanted a way to heal the breach with her daughter without losing face, and the children‘s illness gave her that opportunity. Also, when one died, that had to make it hit home that time was not on her side. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke @CarolynM On the idea of being trapped within their world, both S and H were, and each was “with the majority” at one point, just never at the same time. I think there was real feeling between them, but a gulf they couldn‘t cross. Kind of like a household politically divided in the US right now. I have friends in marriages like that and it‘s tough! 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I‘m game to read anything next - I just want to keep discussing books with all of you! 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat on your last comment, yes! Please! 4y

Currey @Graywacke Yes, thank you for leading this group and for everyone‘s insights. I do get a great deal more from my reading with all your help. I would like to simply continue....whatever everyone wants to read. I have not read many of the great Cather so I have much catching up to do. 4y

jewright @Graywacke Confidence seems to be one of her strengths. She never questions if she is right. The Miller seems plagued by doubt, but she is always sure. Whether or not she is in the right is another matter, but she never questions herself. 4y

CarolynM @Graywacke @Lcsmcat The "trapped within" idea resonates with me for a lot of Cather's work - characters trapped in their time, location, society, family, marriage. And I can certainly see some modern parallels. I also want to continue with Cather. Is there a reason we haven't done Alexander's Bridge? BTW, I've got my husband's book group reading Cather - I suggested My Mortal Enemy to them and they liked it so much they're doing Archbishop now. 4y

Graywacke @jewright good point! S never hesitates on anything. 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM @Lcsmcat we skipped Alexander‘s Bridge because I didn‘t know it existed. ☺️ So now we need to go back and catch it. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @CarolynM @batsy @jewright @Louise @Sace @Tamra @Suet624 @arubabookwoman @Currey @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @crazeedi @mdm139 @Tanisha_A @emilyhaldi @rubyslippersreads @KathyWheeler based on the above I think we should do Cather‘s short stories. There is a Vintage edition called Collected Stories by Willa Cather that I recommend. Start date is undecided but I‘m thinking late January(?). Looking for feedback. How does that sound?

Collected Stories

Lcsmcat @CarolynM So cool that your husband‘s group is reading Cather! Does he discuss the books with you? 4y

TEArificbooks Sound good 4y

TEArificbooks Sorry I didn‘t participate for this book. I have been sick (not corona) for weeks and trying to play catch up. I still plan on reading the book and will check comments later. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke That‘s great. I‘ve ordered it, but could someone who has it already post the table of contents? Many of her stories are available in the public domain and that way people could download the eBook version. 4y

Lcsmcat @mdm139 Sorry to hear you‘ve been sick. I hope you feel better soon. 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM I meant to comment on that too, about your husband and Cather. I love that! ( @Lcsmcat ) 4y

Graywacke @mdm139 hope you feel better! 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat i found this: https://www.willacather.org/collected-stories-willa-cather 4y

Graywacke Collect Stories Contains:
* The Troll Garden (1905), with "Flavia and Her Artists," "The Garden Lodge," and "The Marriage of Phaedra;"
* Youth and the Bright Medusa (1920), with "Coming Aphrodite," "The Diamond Mine," "A Gold Slipper," "Scandal," "Paul's Case," "A Wagner Matinèe," "The Sculptor's Funeral," and "A Death in the Desert;" ⬇️⬇️ 4y

Graywacke * Obscure Destinies (1932), with "Neighbour Rosicky," "Old Mrs. Harris," and "Two Friends;"
* The Old Beauty and Others (1948), with "The Old Beauty," "The Best Years," and "Before Breakfast;"
* Five Stories (1956), with "The Enchanted Bluff," "Tom Outland's Story," and "Willa Cather's Unfinished Avignon Story," an article by George N. Kates. 4y

Graywacke Thinking about timing. It‘s 500 pages. If this one was too fast (I suspect it was) then I might try something like a 50-pages a week pace, half the pace for Sapphira. (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Thanks. I hope this helps people who have her stories in other editions. That pace works for me, but I‘m flexible. I‘ll go with whatever the group decides. 4y

rubyslippersreads Sorry I didn‘t participate with this one, but short stories sound great, because it‘s easy to fit them between other buddy reads. 4y

Graywacke @rubyslippersreads yeah, i like that too. (sometimes I read them the morning of discussion ☺️) 4y

Suet624 I can certainly try. 🥴 4y

CarolynM The short stories seems like a good place to go next. Maybe rather than a set number of pages per week we do one or two stories? My ebook, which purports to be a complete Cather, doesn't seem to contain Obscure Destinies, but it does contain a book called Not Under Forty which appears to be a book of essays. I'd love to read this as a group too. 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM ooh. I‘m interested in her essays too. As for short stories, completely agree, we should do stories - but i was thinking to group them such that they come out to roughly 50 pages a week. (edited) 4y

CarolynM 👍 4y

CarolynM @Lcsmcat Yes, we often discuss books although we don't often read the same ones. Anything I think is really exceptional I tend to push on him until he gives in and reads it😆 4y

Lcsmcat @CarolynM @graywacke I like the idea of reading the essays too. One of my ebooks has some of them. And if we go by story rather than page number people with different editions can participate. So, all that to say “Yay!” 4y

jewright I have read “A Wagner Matinee” but none of the others, so I would love to read 1 or 2 a week. I‘m teaching a short story class in the spring, so I could add the best ones to my class. 4y

Louise @Graywacke @CarolynM I have the Vintage edition of her short stories and am looking forward to diving in with the group. I‘ve also had my eye in Not Under Forty and would be interested, as well as A‘s Bridge. The slower reading pace sounds good. End of January is a good starting time. Thanks, Dan! And Carolyn, glad to hear you‘ve introduced Cather to your husband‘s book group! Happy Holidays, dear Cather enthusiasts! ⛄️ 4y

batsy @Graywacke Sorry I forgot to reply to this earlier! Was reminded of it when I saw @Lcsmcat's post about the Collected Stories. I have the ebook of the Vintage edition and am so excited to join in! Late January sounds good to me 👍🏽 And grouping it by stories might be helpful in navigating the digital copy (as opposed to pages), if that's OK :) 4y

Graywacke @batsy a good reminder I need to figure out a schedule. 😳🙂 But also glad you‘re joining. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @CarolynM @jewright @Louise @Currey @emilyhaldi some food for thought on this: https://interminablerambling.com/2019/04/11/11340/ 4y

Lcsmcat Thanks for sharing- that‘s an interesting article. 4y

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Lcsmcat

Sapphira and the Slave Girl (Illustrated) | Willa Cather

pick

A difficult novel to review for me. I have such respect and love for Cather‘s writing, and I‘m usually very much a “judge authors by their own time” reader, but this was troubling. I look forward to unpacking it with the #catherbuddyread this weekend. I‘m giving it a “pick” for certain descriptive prose, as I‘m otherwise on the fence.

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks So pretty 💗💜 4y

Graywacke Working through my own response... 4y

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emilyhaldi

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

What‘s better than reading on the cozy inside while the snow is coming down hard outside ❄️🌬🌨
#catherbuddyread

BarbaraBB What a lovely edition. And snow! Wow! 4y

Reviewsbylola Is your snowman yodeling? 4y

Graywacke Fun picture 4y

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emilyhaldi Well he is 🎅🏼 and not a snowman but you bet he‘s yodeling! @Reviewsbylola 4y

Reviewsbylola 🤣🤣🤣 can‘t believe I wrote snowman. 🤦🏼‍♀️ 4y

vivastory That mug! 4y

emilyhaldi @vivastory would you believe I actually traveled to Fargo for a friend‘s bachelorette party??? She wanted a surprise location so we made it as random as possible 😂 4y

vivastory That's hilarious 😂 When I lived in minneapolis I almost went there to pay tribute 4y

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Graywacke

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

#catherbuddyread
Sapphira and the Slave Girl, books IV, V and VI

Nancy has her hands full with a the “rake”, Martin Colbert and there doesn‘t seems to be anything anyone else can do about it.

So pre-woke! I‘m appreciating how this book is riling me up with the mixture of the setting, story, how it‘s presented and the perspective of WC (who felt ahead of her time just a few novels ago). It‘s has me involved. How about you?

Graywacke Image is the cover of a book by Rachel A Feinstein titled

When Rape was Legal: The Untold History of Sexual Violence during Slavery

Lcsmcat I started this section thinking Cather was out of her element because she had flowers blooming at the same time that actually bloom about a month apart in this part of the world. Then, before I could post about that, Martin comes in. 😠 I think Cather does a good job of showing how powerless Nancy was and how anything M. did would harm her but not him. The Miller can‘t even bear to be around her because someone else had impure thoughts about her?! 4y

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Lcsmcat This is still going on, to one degree or another, and it certainly would have been an issue in Cather‘s own life. So, a very difficult section to read, and maybe C. decided to use this era to explore something still going on in a way that wouldn‘t hurt her career & maybe they could understand. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat in light of your last comment, Cather says how the Colberts talk about Bluebell but are actually talking about Nancy without naming her. Where do we take that comment? 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Very astute! She could be giving the reader a clue there. Although it is very Southern not to talk directly about unpleasant things. There were some still alive in my childhood who referred to the Civil War as “the late unpleasantness.” 4y

Currey @Lcsmcat Yes, I found the fact that that the Miller Colbert suddenly found Nancy to be something to be afraid of deeply upsetting. Martin has turned her into a sexual object. 4y

Currey @Graywacke Cather‘s setting up a social situation where they can not ask their relative to leave because it would be impolite, but it is okay for him to molest Nancy is a horrible set up but a great dramatic tension. So infuriating to this reader.... 4y

Lcsmcat @Currey That was more upsetting to me than Martin‘s behavior because he was supposed to be the good guy in this story. 4y

Louise Hello, Litsy friends! I‘m behind with the reading but will chime in when I‘ve caught up! Enjoying your comments, though, as you all are cuing me in to what to look out for! 🤓 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat interesting (and astute!!) observation about the flowers. I would never have known. 4y

Graywacke @Currey @Lcsmcat I found Henry‘s sudden discomfort with Nancy strange, but it didn‘t bother me. He‘s dealing with something beyond his control. But it‘s still a weird. What bothers me is his inability to do anything about Nancy and Martin. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Are you thinking Cather had 1930‘s-era sexual harassment in mind when she wrote this? As in something she (or someone close to her) experienced? 4y

Graywacke @Currey the setting is infuriating in so many ways. It‘s a sick society where people are trained to accept being less than normal human, being indispensable labor for food and shelter and not getting tormented. The training concept bothers me so much. (The n-word also hits me hard. Cather is so loose and familiar with it. It‘s obviously not a big deal to her, writing in her time.) (edited) 4y

Graywacke I thought Cather‘s story of the deranged slave (Dave?) was a good addition. Not only does it go into the absolute dependence of slaves on the owners will, but it touches on love and therefore the sexuality of Nancy herself. She‘s adolescent and kept like a nun without a love possibility. But Cather doesn‘t want to touch that directly. I thought Dave‘s story was a way. Also, it‘s a memorable story. 4y

Graywacke @Louise No worries. I suspect only a few of us have actually kept pace. So you‘re probably ahead of most people. 🙂 Enjoy! 4y

Currey @Graywacke I agree with your comment about the addition of Dave‘s story. It was a tragic story and resonated with Till‘s story of being married to a “capon” because a lady‘s maid should not get pregnant or rather not look pregnant. The horrors of believing in the ownership of another human being. Agree also with the n word. A jolt every time 4y

Currey @Graywacke @Lcsmcat Cather lived in Virginia until she was 8 or 9....I wonder if any of these stories were true to her early experience 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Yes, I was thinking of sexual harassment. It‘s still, even after #metoo the woman who gets blamed AND loses out career-wise if she doesn‘t walk a tightrope in situations where men have the power. You know Cather encountered that, especially in the all-male publishing/journalism world. (edited) 4y

Lcsmcat @Currey I‘m sure it did on an atmospheric level, but when you think of what details you remember from when you were 8, they‘re usually very self and family related, rather than larger. But she could have had grandparents who told stories from the antebellum era that influenced her. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Dave was a good addition! And, in the vein of talking about one thing when you mean another, Cather could be pointing us to the very thing you mentioned. 4y

CarolynM Sorry I'm coming in late, I was away and didn't have internet access. Yes to everything @lcsmcat says about sexual harassment. There are men like Martin everywhere, flattering and charming those they perceive as having power or otherwise being in a position to help them while making use, in whatever way that suits them, of everyone else. For young women, that "use" is usually sexual in some form. 4y

CarolynM It is horrible to see Nancy's vulnerability to Martin's whims. At least she has Mrs Blake to offer some protection from a position of relative power. At first I was feeling angry on Henry's behalf that men like Martin are the cause of questions of sexuality being raised when there are cordial relations between men and women (particularly young women), but then he started in on the sexualising of poor Nancy😡 (edited) 4y

Graywacke @Currey @Lcsmcat I‘ve been wondering about how her Virginia connection play in this the whole book. And then to think she might have gotten the flowers wrong. !! If she had grown up in, say, Mississippi, could she still have this image in mind? 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM your posts are welcome anytime. 🙂 Also hoping you had a nice reason for no internet access...like a vacation somewhere away from it all. And not a crummy reason. Looks like Martin struck a 21st century nerve. 😕 ( @Lcsmcat ) 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM ( @Lcsmcat @Currey ) Henry has some issues. Makes me wonder about the marriage again. My first idea: S married H for his responsibility, H married S to marry up. But the marriage goes cold as both realize as S essentially got a servant and run her household... 4y

Currey @Graywacke Yes, we have been told that S‘s father found H responsible. I believe that S needed someone to marry immediately upon her parents passing and also needed someone who would allow her to be independent. Henry was there and fit the bill. He also could be kept conveniently out of sight of her social circle. I think dependency and a form of love then grew up between them. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I think it would have been different. Not all parts of the South are the same, and Virginia and Mississippi were and are quite different. Yes, they both had slavery, but a lot else was different. 4y

Lcsmcat @Currey @Graywacke I think S was in a position where she was getting “old” and had to marry but had run out of “appropriate“ suitors. She strikes me as one who would like getting courted more than getting settled, and then she was in a tight spot. 4y

emilyhaldi Ugh, I fell behind again this week. Hoping to get caught up before next week‘s discussion!! 🤞🏻🤞🏻 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @Currey on S & H: I‘m just noticing S has no household or income responsibilities. What does she do other than get taken care of? Now I know Her disability is an obvious explanation. But was she actually productive before, when she was healthy, or just active? All Henry does is work. 4y

Graywacke I‘ll had that Sampson has a sick wife - and he takes care of her. Henry can‘t (!) take care of Sapphira. He would be in the house slave‘s ways. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I think Virginia has a more rose colored memory than the Deep South and all the post-slavery lynchings. I was wondering if she could write that opening chapter of (apparent) household balance in a deeper south awareness. 4y

Graywacke @emilyhaldi I pushed the pace to beat xmas. No worries. If you read as it works for you, comment anytime. 4y

40 likes34 comments

Graywacke

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

What would Sally Hemming make of the Martin Colbert section... or of the entire novel? Something to maybe discuss Saturday when we cover Books IV-VI

#catherbuddyread

Lcsmcat I‘m thinking her thoughts would not be fit to print, as they say. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I like to think that would be the case. 4y

Tanisha_A Hi Dan! I haven't started reading yet. Been so busy with life (all good stuff) and haven't had much time for reading. Will mostly start this weekend! Do keep tagging me! 🤗 4y

Graywacke @Tanisha_A will do! Enjoy and yay for good stuff. 🙂 4y

40 likes5 comments

Graywacke

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

Sapphira and the Slave Girl - Dec 5 - Books I-III
#catherbuddyread

Ok...ok, what are you making of this? Sapphira Dodderidge Colbert has her issues and her 20 well trained slaves. Henry has his own issues. Otherwise not much is happening... and yet. Are you feeling the tension? The conflict? Anyone tossed the book across the room yet? Anyone else fascinated? A nonjudgmental take on domestic slavery...

Currey As usual, there is a way that Cather causes tension by not having enough dramatic tension. I always think that something is about to happen. 4y

Lcsmcat Sapphira definitely has something up her sleeve with the trip east. And why on earth did those 2 marry? There‘s got to be more story there. 4y

See All 36 Comments

catebutler Shoot! I need to get caught up! I‘ll come back and read the discussion questions ASAP! 4y

emilyhaldi Just finished book 2!! I‘m a bit behind, but I am quite fascinated by the setting of the scene so far.. like @Lcsmcat I am hoping we get more backstory to why in the world Sapphira chose Henry as her husband 🤨 4y

Louise Oh, the tensions that thrive beneath the surface of Southern gentility! In this backwoods place, even the ignorant and illiterate have their ideas of superiority—the mountain boys won‘t work alongside Black folks, some see the mountain people as “white trash”, Nancy is considered “yeller“, the miller and Sapphira will always be considered outsiders, and it goes on. Till and Nancy choose to maintain ladylike standards in their work, Sapphira . . . (edited) 4y

Louise . . . shows off her carriage windows to impress the townspeople—everyone is jostling for their place in this unspoken caste system. And then there are those who disapprove of slavery but live quietly among slave owners. And of course, the primal jealousies of a wife who sees her husband talking w/ a pretty slave girl. All these tensions and more are simmering under the surface, even as petty little “justices” are meted out. When will it all erupt? 4y

Graywacke @Currey i felt tension along the lines of thinking through all the problems of that world. But I wonder where this is going. 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat wondering about that marriage too. I think that trip east is more along the lines of status and keeping Nancy from Henry. 4y

Graywacke @catebutler no worries. A bit longer than the usual pace. Trying to squeeze this in before xmas. 4y

Graywacke @emilyhaldi yeah, I‘m fascinated too. the end of book 3 has a some weight. It‘s what I‘ve been thinking about. Curious what you think. 4y

KathyWheeler Oh no! For some reason I had the schedule wrong and am just now starting this. 😞 4y

Graywacke @Louise Thanks for this. Great analysis, all this “stuff” going on even without story drama. It‘s just there, part if everyday life. Although - do Till and Nancy really get to choose? 4y

Graywacke @KathyWheeler no worries. You can post as you catch up. (And i neglected my usual reminder...sorry) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke The trip could be to keep them apart, but I‘m uneasy. I think S. might try to sell N. 4y

Lcsmcat @Louise Wow - great analysis! @Graywacke I don‘t think many of them get to choose. Everyone has these very rigid roles. And Cather likes to explore how people deal with assigned/expected roles, doesn‘t she? (edited) 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat ah - I hadn‘t considered selling N... 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I think Cather is interested in lives within larger forces - trapped within. I think there is a theme in there. 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Early in book 1 she talks about letting a family have Nancy, her husband freaks out that “we don‘t sell our people” and she says she could spare Nancy, and giving her away “to oblige a friend” isn‘t the same as selling. (It‘s on p 6 in my edition.) 4y

Lcsmcat @Graywacke “Lives within larger forces” is a great way to put it. And we know a very large force is about to be unleashed, and which characters are on which side, which adds to the tension @Currey was talking about. 4y

Louise @Lcsmcat @Graywacke Yes! “Lives within larger forces” is a great way to put it. And then the question of free will comes in. Even within the bounds of slavery, people exercise small freedoms. Jezebel mends pants to be comfy for good boys and uncomfortable for lazy boys, Nancy adds flowers to the miller‘s room to please him, Sapphira tests her freedom by trying to get rid of Nancy...but there her freedom is limited, as she can‘t sell her w/o her... 4y

Louise ...husband‘s signature. So she takes smaller freedoms by taking Nancy away with her on her trip and by being harsh with her. There‘s a bigger theme here about free will vs. determinism. They even suggest Jezebel‘s capture was her deliverance! There we see the confines of religious belief. 4y

Graywacke @Louise jezebel‘s trip across the ocean and the matter of description were chilling. And accurate as far as I know. Really interesting about free will. I‘ll be thinking about that as we go forward. ( @Lcsmcat ) 4y

CarolynM I'm fascinated by the whole picture. @Louise @Lcsmcat make some great points. I liked Henry's discussion with Sampson about freeing him. There are so many reasons not to be freed from a family such as this one into the society of the time and place. And yet Henry (& we, I think) are uneasy that he doesn't choose freedom. The description of Jezebel's experience was quietly horrifying. The hierarchy & politics amongst the servants interests me too👇 4y

CarolynM As for the relationship between Sapphira and Henry, I wonder if we will get much explanation. Cather doesn't always give us the full story of a marriage. While I'd like to know more, it's very much like real life to see a couple and wonder how on earth they came to be together. 4y

CarolynM @Louise That remark about Jezebel's "deliverance" struck me too. It seems incredible to have such extreme belief in your way of being. But I suppose they had so little exposure to any other way that it wasn't possible to imagine how anything else could ever be acceptable. 4y

batsy I'm sorry, but I won't be joining in this month. I have built a Cather collection and wasn't able to get a physical copy in time, and my brain seems to be rebelling against heavy reads. I think all I can manage this month is fluff. 4y

jewright @CarolynM I was wondering if she married him out of desperation. She was 24 and both younger sisters were already married. Perhaps she thought he could be controlled. She seems used to being in charge. If she married someone socially below her, she would have more power. They don‘t seem unhappy until this jealousy she has about Nancy. 4y

jewright @Graywacke And as terrible as the ship was, it was considered a humane slave ship. Throws parts made me feel a little sick... hard to believe people could treat other human beings that way. 4y

jewright This book seems all about control and power to me. Of course, everyone is genteel and nice about it, but the whole thing is a power struggle. 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM Sampson‘s story is really discouraging. He was reasonable. But it highlights the trap the whole society is based around - and, I think, the limited horizon we all tend to restrict our visions too... As for Jezebel‘s “deliverance” - oye. I do hope Cather wasn‘t blessing this view. ( @Louise ) 4y

Graywacke @batsy ok. Wish you well. (I know you have a lot going on. Sending virtual hugs.) 4y

Graywacke @jewright the slave ship - yes, the remarks on how this was a ship of lunatic slavers, but regular men just trying to do as best they can - that this is the good version of passage. History is crazy cruel. 4y

Graywacke @jewright yes the power and control, which plays into the tensions @Louise laid out above - all just under the surface...and under the text. 4y

batsy @Graywacke *hug* Nothing major, just needing to not think for a bit, maybe 🙂 4y

Graywacke @batsy glad to hear that. 👍 4y

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Graywacke

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

Time to get moving on this one for the #catherbuddyread

Tamra Beautiful edition! 4y

Graywacke @Tamra I like it too. It‘s not a special edition, just a latest Vintage Classic cover. They did a good job though. 4y

54 likes2 comments

Lcsmcat

Sapphira and the Slave Girl (Illustrated) | Willa Cather

Diving in for the #catherbuddyread with another Vintage paperback edition. @Graywacke

Tanisha_A I am getting my copy tomorrow! Eeee 4y

Tanisha_A Your edition is beautiful! ❤️ 4y

Lcsmcat @Tanisha_A Thanks! I have gotten several of the Cather books we‘ve read through ThriftBooks, and they have a lot of these editions from the 1970s. 4y

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks Beautiful!! 4y

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Graywacke

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

Sapphira and the Slave Girl

Cather‘s last novel might touch on some uncomfortable themes. We‘ll start in a little over a week, Saturday December 5. All are welcome. Let me know if you‘re interested.

#catherbuddyread
Dec 5 - Books I-III
Dec 12 - Books IV-VI
Dec 19 - Books VII-IX

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @CarolynM @batsy @jewright @Louise @Sace @Tamra @Suet624 @arubabookwoman @Currey @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @crazeedi @mdm139 @Tanisha_A @emilyhaldi @rubyslippersreads 4y

Graywacke @Caterina @bromeliad @squirrelbrain @Amiable @jmofo @saresmoore @LitsyHappenings @SeaBreezeReader @cmastfalk @JamieArc (just tagging everyone on this list once as an fyi. If you want to join us for this book, let me know.) 4y

KathyWheeler I‘d like to join in. 4y

See All 25 Comments

Louise Perfect timing, as I just finished Lucy Gayheart. Count me in! Thanks, Dan! Happy Thanksgiving! 🍁 4y

Graywacke @KathyWheeler 🙂 Adding you to the list. 4y

Graywacke @Louise poor Lucy. Glad you‘re joining! 👍 4y

Louise @Graywacke I was so shocked by the sudden event that happened to Lucy. Cather really reached in and wrung out the tears in Book 3! 4y

Graywacke @Louise yeah. She warns us, but still. The image of Lucy hangs around. 4y

Currey Please include me. 4y

Graywacke @Currey got you on the permanent list. 🙂 4y

Lcsmcat I‘m in! Happy Thanksgiving! 4y

CarolynM I'm in, of course. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. 4y

Louise @Graywacke Yes, the foreshadowing is there. For some reason, when I read the group‘s discussion a few weeks ago, I formed the idea that Lucy died in the Great Chicago Fire. So, while the manner of her actual death had its poetic parallels and so on, it came as a shock that it didn‘t happen in Chicago. Either way, so sad! (edited) 4y

Graywacke @Lcsmcat happy thanksgiving! @CarolynM thanks! Guessing it‘s not a holiday where you are. 🙂 Got you both on the list. 👍 4y

Graywacke @Louise part of me is relieved we didn‘t spoil it too much ☺️ But on a more serious note - it‘s sad and those “poetic parallels” you mention are curious. 4y

CarolynM No, not a holiday, but the first one day cricket international for the summer, so that's nearly as good😄 4y

Graywacke @CarolynM 😆 had no idea! 4y

Louise @Graywacke True! And wasn‘t it lovely how Cather maintained the bird imagery for Lucy throughout! Onward now to find out what happens with Sapphira and the slave girl. 🤓 4y

jewright I‘m in! I will try to keep up but that is the last few weeks of the school term, so I may fall behind. 4y

Graywacke @Louise onward 👍 🙂 @jewright you‘re also on the permanent list. 🙂 4y

arubabookwoman I read Sapphira a few years ago. I won‘t be rereading, but I will follow along with the discussion (and maybe comment if I feel I am remembering the book correctly). 4y

rubyslippersreads I‘m in, though I‘ll probably be beheaded usual. 😄 4y

Graywacke @arubabookwoman 👍 @rubyslippersreads don‘t lose your head! ☺️ Glad you‘re joining. 4y

rubyslippersreads @Graywacke Darned Autocorrect! 😂 4y

emilyhaldi I‘m going to try and join! 😁 4y

36 likes25 comments

melissajayne

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

pick

4⭐️ While I thought Sapphira was a person I wouldn‘t want to associate with, I thought the book was really well written and certainly is an interesting portrayal of a slave owner and different from some other books written in the same era. #bookstagram #classic #fiction #2020 #readathon #bookreview #bookspin

TheAromaofBooks

TheAromaofBooks Great review!! 5y

melissajayne @TheAromaofBooks thanks! I want to get my hands on more Willa Cather books; one of the hosts of Book Cougars is a big fan. 5y

TheAromaofBooks I actually don't think I have ever read one of her books! 5y

23 likes3 comments

melissajayne

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

My stack of books for #24hourreadathon. I have others but these are the ones I am choosing to read from for the readathon tomorrow. Probably will read an ebook as well.

21 likes

TracyReadsBooks

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

In this week‘s edition of random discoveries on my bookshelves, a first edition copy of Willa Cather‘s last novel (no dust jacket unfortunately). I think it was my grandmother‘s and I must admit I know nothing about it. On the “I need to read this at some point” list it goes.

17 likes

Lcsmcat

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

I got #bookmail today that is the last Cather that I didn‘t have. Love these vintage covers. #catherbuddyread

Graciouswarriorprincess Beautiful! 5y

Leftcoastzen Neat cover! 5y

Tanisha_A Pretty edition! 5y

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emilyesears

Sapphira and the Slave Girl | Willa Cather

Tonight I finished Sapphira and thus I finished my year-long challenge of reading all of Willa Cather‘s novels and novellas! She wrote exactly 12 of them so it was perfect. There weren‘t any surprises—her most well-known works are her best—but it was still interesting. This was my first time to deliberately read an author‘s full oeuvre & I enjoyed doing it. However, next year my main reading goal is to make a sizable dent in my owned unread books.

Libby1 Great goal! Well done. 5y

15 likes1 comment

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