The Buccaneers

The Buccaneers - Book 3
#whartonbuddyread

Ok, 1st of all, I didn‘t see that marriage happening. What a devastating way to open book 3.

2nd - that‘s the end of Wharton‘s draft.

3rd - but she also left a synopsis. So we know what is going to happen. But that‘s looking ahead.

4th - so, Book 3 - thoughts on Longlands, Ushant, Dowager, Thwarte, Conchita, Testvalley, Lizzy Robinson?

5th - completion plan next week. See comments.

Lcsmcat

Graywacke Completion plan: as Wharton left a synopsis, there are a couple completions. We can discuss them Saturday Feb 22 - synopsis, completion, and the overall themes they reveal. Sound ok? (edited) 7d

Graywacke Note: My edition has a completion based on a 1990‘s television take - but doesn‘t follow the tv script, because that script changes the plot and makes Ushant openly gay (something possible but not openly suggested). It‘s a hundred pages. I admit I‘m not super enthused to read it, but willing to give it a try. Still I definitely want to discuss overarching themes. (edited) 7d

Graywacke @AllDebooks @CarolynM @Currey @IMASLOWREADER @jewright @LapReader @Lcsmcat @Leftcoastzen @TheBookHippie 7d

See All 33 Comments

Currey @Graywacke I also was upset that Nan married as she did and that it further diminished her self confidence and quirky nature so much. I rather like the fact that Testvalley was given a romantic role. Having read so much Wharton now, it does not feel as if she intended everyone to live happily ever after. The best we can hope for is for Nan to gain some self confidence. 7d

Currey @Graywacke - my book does not have the synopsis but an ending written by someone else. Can you share where to find synopsis? I do not want to read a TV ending. 7d

Currey @Graywacke I read that Wharton based Lizzy on the mother of Winston Churchill. There are many paintings of her and she was quite beautiful (in the paintings) and known to be intelligent, and ambitious for her husband and son. 7d

Graywacke @Currey Lizzy is Winston‘s mom?!! Wharton noticed Winston‘s mom in the 1930‘s? !! 7d

Currey @Graywacke https://images.app.goo.gl/23FsvTmYugGQPNu36 7d

Graywacke @Currey if i can find the synopsis online, i‘ll share a link. It‘s six pages, so tough to share here. I‘m happy to photograph the pages and email anyone interested. Email me at: dan iel . chaikin @ gmail . com (without spaces) 7d

Graywacke @Currey she was gorgeous. Was she American? 7d

Graywacke @Currey clearly yes. What a character. Premarital pregnancy, many lovers rumored. I‘m intrigued! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Randolph_Churchill 7d

Graywacke Amongst his biographers, there are varied opinions on whether he was conceived before the marriage, or born two months prematurely after Lady Randolph "had a fall." When asked about the circumstances of his birth, Winston Churchill replied: "Although present on the occasion, I have no clear recollection of the events leading up to it." 7d

Currey @Graywacke Yes, quite the beauty and quite the social manipulator for her own ends. Love the Winston quote. 7d

Lcsmcat Once again I‘m behind. 🙄 But yeah, I saw that marriage coming the way you see an accident happening and can‘t stop it. 😀 7d

Lcsmcat Wharton‘s negative view of marriage is on full display, but I‘m also getting conflicting emotions from her on the old vs. new we saw in Hudson River Bracketed. Quote below 7d

Lcsmcat “At least life in England had a background, layers and layers of rich deep background, of history, poetry, old traditional observances, beautiful houses, beautiful landscapes, beautiful ancient buildings, palaces, churches, cathedrals.” 7d

Graywacke @Lcsmcat about the marriage… i kind of wanted a next step by Ushant. Clearly he did not listen to Laura Testvalley. 6d

Graywacke @Lcsmcat my introduction argues that Wharton appreciated the value of marriage. But she had a bad marriage. It also makes parallels between Nan and Wharton (unhappy marriage), and between Testvalley and Wharton (unmarried in middle age). (It also confirmed my Buccaneers explanation mentioned late in last week‘s post. Although I suspect you and others had already worked that out) 6d

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And one wonders if she were offering an alternative to Henry James‘ The Ambassadors? 6d

Graywacke @Lcsmcat tell more! I haven‘t read James 6d

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I don‘t remember a lot about it but it‘s also about the Europe is better than America and all cultured Americans are that way because they follow Europe‘s lead. It‘s more from the male point of view, and I don‘t remember it having the depth of feeling in the female characters that Buccaneers has. 6d

CarolynM I found this last Book rather sad. In some ways Nan reminded me of Lily Bart, but here she gave in to the “need” for marriage and the consequences were tragic in their own way. The social and cultural misunderstandings also made me think of a modern American duchess… My ebook contains a brief synopsis at the end, only 2 paragraphs sketch out the intended ending. It would have been interesting to see how she would have developed it. 6d

Lcsmcat @CarolynM I saw Nan as more like Halo. She went into the marriage thinking it was a live match, and then discovered her husband‘s true personality. 6d

CarolynM @Lcsmcat I think Halo was much more sophisticated and equipped to carry out the wifely role both public and private. Neither Nan nor Lily seemed to me to have the desire for any of it. 6d

Lcsmcat @CarolynM That‘s true. I was thinking more of the motivation to get married, than the ability to handle being married. 6d

Graywacke @CarolynM @Lcsmcat interesting comparisons. Wharton certainly has several different takes on marriage, and they aren‘t particularly inspiring. ? @CarolynM - Nan‘s situation is really sad, especially as Testvalley gave the warning clearly. The Duke didn‘t listen. His take on a relationships (thinking 740 should get him sex) is remarkably unaware. He just doesn‘t see what‘s going on with Nan. He can‘t. 6d

Graywacke I surrender. I read 8 pages of Mackworth-Young completion and it was awful. No more! 😳😁 5d

Graywacke @Currey - last four paragraphs of the Synopsis
- But though she (Nan, upon marrying Tintagel) is dazzled for the moment, her heart is not satisfed. The Duke is kindly but dull and arrogant, and the man she really loves is young Guy Thwarte, a poor offcer in the Guards, the son of Sir Helmsley Thwarte, whose old and wonderfully beautiful place in Gloucestershire, Honourslove, is the scene of a part of the story. 5d

Graywacke Sir Helmsley Thwarte, the widowed father of Guy, a clever, broken-down and bitter old worldling, is captivated by Miss Testvalley, and wants to marry her; but meanwhile the young Duchess of Tintagel has suddenly decided to leave her husband and go off with Guy, and it turns out that Laura Testvalley, moved by the youth and passion of the lovers, and disgusted by the mediocre Duke of Tintagel, … 5d

Graywacke … has secretly lent a hand in the planning of the elopement, the scandal of which is to ring through England for years. 5d

Graywacke - Sir Helmsley Thwarte discovers what is going on, and is so furious at his only son's being involved in such an adventure that, suspecting Miss Testvalley's complicity, he breaks with her, and the great old adventuress, seeing love, deep and abiding love, triumph for the first time in her career, helps Nan to join her lover, who has been ordered to South Africa, and then goes back alone to old age and poverty. 5d

Graywacke - The Elmsworth and Closson adventures will be interwoven with Nan's, and the setting will be aristocratic London in the season, and life in the great English country-houses as they were sixty years ago. 5d

jewright I finally caught up. I just feel sorry for Ushant and Nan. Both of them are unhappy and seem incapable of understanding the other. What a disaster. 1d

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