The Children

so-so

It‘s Wharton, so I should probably just give it a pick, but it‘s not my favorite of hers.

We spend this book waiting to see how Martin will manage his unacknowledged attraction to 15-yr-old Judith, while he tries to help her and her 6 siblings-plus-“steps”, stuck 👆 - Cortina, IT in the Dolomites. We might put it down wondering whether it was J who managed M. But the rest I found ok, but less interesting.

#whartonbuddyread

Lcsmcat

Ruthiella I‘m think it‘s ok to adjust your scale based on expectations. Makes sense to me. 9mo

Lcsmcat Just because someone is a “great author” doesn‘t mean every try is a hit, or connects with every reader. I think she was trying to do something important, I‘m just not sure how successful it was in its day, nor how much staying power it has. 9mo

Crazeedi This picture ❤️❤️❤️❤️ 9mo

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Graywacke @Lcsmcat well, it was a bestseller. But i agree with you. And i don‘t sense much staying power. 9mo

Graywacke @Ruthiella thanks. I‘m always hesitant to hit those Litsy percentages. 🙂 9mo

Graywacke @Crazeedi yeah, right. Take me there! Please! 9mo

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CarolynM

The Children | Edith Wharton

pick

There are plenty of books about the beautiful people of the early 20th century swanning about Europe from one fashionable location to another in a whirl of social engagements & entertainments & falling in and out of love with one another. This book is about the impact of that behaviour on their children. It is sad, infuriating and amusing in equal measure. Thanks #WhartonBuddyRead for getting me to read it.

Lcsmcat, Graywacke

batsy Nice review ❤️ "Sad, infuriating, and amusing" sums it up. 9mo

Lcsmcat Have you noticed that none of the covers manage to show more than 5 children? It just goes to show how very many 7 were! 9mo

CarolynM @Lcsmcat I deliberately chose a cover that showed children in action - the ones showing quiet, demure little darlings didn‘t seem at all right for the 7 little Wheaters. 9mo

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Lcsmcat

The Children | Edith Wharton

Some preliminary thoughts. Rose is of the Old New York - staying in her unhappy marriage and arranging things, always calm and dignified. The elder Wheaters are the worst of the nouveau riche - marrying and divorcing on a whim and chasing the latest pleasure. Martin was born into Rose‘s world, but he doesn‘t live there. He runs off to make his fortune, loving an image of her (and an image of Joyce). Judith acts as a catalyst to reveal all this.

Graywacke

Lcsmcat All of them made me uncomfortable, for different reasons. And did we get the typical unhappy Wharton ending? #whartonbuddyread 10mo

Lcsmcat @mdm139 @graywacke @jewright @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @Cathythoughts @Crazeedi @Currey @dabbe @emilyhaldi @IMASLOWREADER 10mo

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Sparklemn @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash
10mo

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Lcsmcat Photo from an eBay listing for the 1928 edition. I just loved that dust jacket! 10mo

Currey @Lcsmcat love the dust jacket: “In a world of easy divorce…” makes it sound like a pot boiler. 10mo

Lcsmcat @Currey Doesn‘t it? I was highly amused. 10mo

Currey @Lcsmcat In regards the ending, I was left believing that the children would be fine, they may never rise above their odd up bringing but they were resilient. Judith would probably marry although she was sure she would not. Joyce even seemed to have found a place that gave her some escape from the crazy world (of her own making). That leaves Rose and Martin. 10mo

Lcsmcat @Currey I feel like Rose and Martin were just as damaged by their upbringing as the children were, but of course in a different way. Is Wharton suggesting how difficult it is to escape one‘s rearing? 10mo

Currey @Lcsmcat Would Rose have married Dobree if she thought she was free? Dobree seemed vaguely interested in her between eyeing Judith and before courting Judith‘s mother. They would have made nice Old World New York partners. Although I think Rose really did care for Martin whereas Martin cared for some image he had of Rose not the person herself (edited) 10mo

Currey @Lcsmcat Martin did escape somewhat when he was off building bridges or such things far away from New York. He was also good with the children as he took it on as a job. Wharton saying you can only escape so far and you will pay for it in the end? 10mo

Lcsmcat @Currey I don‘t think Martin and Rose would have been happy, although Rose wouldn‘t admit it. But I‘m not sure how she and Dobree would have got on. He seemed to want more (as evidenced by his going for Joyce.) And Marin was definitely better at loving images he created than real people. All those conversations where he played both parts! 10mo

batsy I'm mostly in agreement with your thoughts. I was so disturbed by how calm and unflappable Rose was, the cost of always maintaining tact and discretion. I think Wharton meant to show Old NY values as a prison of sorts, that Martin was running away from. The children left me feeling sad—although we do see Judith from Martin's melancholy POV, the fact that he catches a glimpse of sadness on her face makes me wonder if she's doomed to playing a role. 10mo

Graywacke Sorry all. I finished, but i‘ve had no power since a storm wiped out part of Houston‘s power system Thursday evening. So, i‘ll come back later. Saving phone battery. 10mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I wondered if that affected you. Stay safe! 10mo

Lcsmcat @batsy I too think Martin was running away from the old NY prison, but his attraction to Rose and his ruminations on his Uncle‘s adventures makes me think he couldn‘t quite get away. 10mo

Lcsmcat @batsy The book opens and closes with Martin alone, but I‘m not sure “lonely” equals “sad.” With the kids, though we don‘t get to know really how they turn out, I don‘t have high hopes. The dearth of any education for the girls limits them even more than the society of the time would. And the boys aren‘t much better. 10mo

CarolynM I read it all at once so you‘re getting all my thoughts here. The children‘s plight was truly heartbreaking & I could sympathize with Martin wanting to help, but it was a doomed enterprise from the start. I particularly felt for Judith, forced to take on so much responsibility so young while her parents avoided all responsibility. Was the title intended to highlight the childishness of the parents too? ⬇️ 10mo

CarolynM I liked the way Wharton dealt with the relationship between M & J. Given that it was not unusual at that time for teenage girls to marry much older men & she was only just short of marriageable age I could understand why he occasionally slipped into thinking of her that way, then felt bad about it. I also liked that she was so oblivious. ⬇️ 10mo

CarolynM The end was so sad. The poor steps being subjected to the nutty child rearing theories of the Lohengrin College (Princess Buondelmonte was hilarious and infuriating all at once) & poor little Chip! (edited) 9mo

Lcsmcat @CarolynM I loved that Judith was oblivious too. It made it better somehow. I hadn‘t thought of the title as referring to the parents too, but it makes sense. 9mo

Lcsmcat @CarolynM The Princess was a hoot . I loved how the kids took her down a peg! 9mo

cindyash @CarolynM Oh I thought the title definitly was for the parents as well. And Martin reminds me of the old chestnut “the road to hell is paved with good intentions. “ 9mo

cindyash @Lcsmcat yes that was probably my fav part! also thought about giving parents advice not sure thats gotten any better 9mo

batsy @CarolynM I liked that as I read it Martin became more complicated, and less of a creep as I first read him in the early section. A testament to Wharton's ability to shade her characters with nuance and complexity. 9mo

Lcsmcat @batsy @CarolynM Wharton did an excellent job of showing Martin‘s inner state, especially in a book not told in first person. He did become more sympathetic. But so clueless! How did he think he could actually change those parents‘ behavior? 9mo

jewright This was interesting to me because as a teacher I constantly see kids ripped in and out of homes and schools in parents‘ unstable relationships. I guess it sadly isn‘t only a recent problem. I really thought Martín and Judith would get married, so I was surprised by the ending. 9mo

Graywacke (No power, but better internet connection) - @Lcsmcat I like your analysis a lot in the initial post. I hadn‘t thought of it that way. My 1st thought on finishing is that without Martin‘s attraction to a 15-yr-old, this book has not drive. That awkward tension makes the book work…and is really the only thing that makes it work. If i had that right, feels odd. 9mo

Graywacke @batsy etc - for what it‘s worth, i grew to really appreciate Rose. Her unfeeling goddess of always correct judgement was clearly only on the outside. She had feelings, she tried. Martin was a mess. I think Rose handled it all with a lot of grace. 9mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat etc - I also found Martin‘s internal mental mess well done and interesting. He never understood what he wanted. Even at the end, he is as lost as he was in the beginning. His thoughts tell us what he couldn‘t understand. 9mo

Graywacke @Currey @CarolynM etc - here is an alternate view of Judith - she managed Martin like she managed everything else. She knew all Rose knew, and she knew and worked Martin‘s attraction. And when he crossed the line, she knew exactly how to play to disarm him. And when he was off to London, she knew he was gone and that his usefulness has played out. So she went along with his promise to return. Just a thought. Could be (I imagine). 9mo

Graywacke @cindyash were Martin‘s intentions always good? (He really was in a state of denial. Maybe several denials.) 9mo

Graywacke @jewright Economics plays a role in these broken families. Wealthy families can be cruel (although it takes intent, like here). But poverty is a lot different. 9mo

Currey @Graywacke I like thinking about your alternative take on Judith. Perhaps she did know all that was going on in Martin‘s mess of a mind and just played him. That is an even more cynical reading. (edited) 9mo

Lcsmcat @Currey @Graywacke While I don‘t want Judith to be that cynical, it makes sense, given all she had been exposed to in her young life. And I do like to think of her taking control. Who among us women hasn‘t had to “manage” an older man at some point? And I know I did it by playing dumb (instead of reporting him like I wish I had!) (edited) 9mo

CarolynM @Graywacke @Currey Um…I really don‘t think there‘s anything to suggest Judith is that calculating. I wouldn‘t have thought that laughing at Martin when he indicated he might be interested in her would be a good play if she were. 9mo

CarolynM @batsy Yes, at first I was very unsure about Martin‘s intentions, but I think he was trying do the right thing by the children. 9mo

Graywacke @CarolynM i was thinking laughing was the perfect defuser. No one gets insulted because it turns the proposal into funny suggestion. 9mo

Lcsmcat @CarolynM @Graywacke I guess it depends on _what_ she was calculating. If the idea was to avoid marriage with Martin but not lose his friendship/protection, I think she did pretty well. 9mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat i think she was just using Martin for a while. I don‘t think she was mean or conniving, just taking advantage of his willingness to help. She handles the princess quite well and that was serious. She saw right through Rose‘s formality. Judith, to me, was a sharp one. 9mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Never mean. Conniving maybe. Certainly clever - she couldn‘t have watched the adults around her without learning something of how to get her way. And stealing the money to run away is a character defining moment. 9mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat good point on the stealing! I hadn‘t connected that. 9mo

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batsy

The Children | Edith Wharton

pick

I didn't quite like this, but it's Wharton—the novel is interesting & unsettling. It seems like it takes the themes that were satirised in Twilight Sleep (irresponsible parents blown about by every wind) & gives it a darker turn. In this one we see the children as fully-fledged characters & the costs of bad parenting hit hard. The other thing is the character of Martin: predatory, genuine, or wayward Peter Pan? All very disturbing to think about.

batsy I suppose what made it bleak is the spectre of Doll Westway haunting this narrative. #WhartonBuddyRead @Lcsmcat 10mo

Cathythoughts Great review! Wharton is Wharton indeed. 10mo

BarbaraBB Wharton is Wharton. Love that. Also great edition 10mo

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Lcsmcat Doll Westway really does haunt it. It made me wonder if Wharton experienced a child‘s suicide. Great review! 10mo

batsy @Cathythoughts Thank you! There's something about Wharton—it's rarely a wasted moment. 10mo

batsy @BarbaraBB Was very happy to find this Virago edition a few years back 🤩 10mo

batsy @Lcsmcat Thank you! I was wondering the same re: her experience. Marilyn French in her intro says that this was one of Wharton's own favourites. 10mo

cindyash @Lcsmcat I was shocked by this then shocked that her friend witnessed it, then shocked that her mother didn't seem to care two hoots about it. I wonder two if she experienced it 10mo

CarolynM I‘ve just finished reading. Still processing. Looking forward to discussing it with you and the others. 10mo

batsy @CarolynM Look forward to your thoughts, Carolyn. There's a lot to mull over. 10mo

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Lcsmcat

The Children | Edith Wharton

Sorry for the late post - it‘s been a morning. 🙄
We seem to be following Martin to a place we were all hoping he wouldn‘t go, and he‘s deluding himself about. What role does Mrs. Sellarshave in this - is she pushing him that way even as she dreads it? And how does Mr. Dobree‘s visit impact Roseand Martin‘s relationship with? #WhartonBuddyRead

Graywacke

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Sparklemn @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 10mo

Graywacke Martin is a mess. It‘s an interesting, if frustrating, look at his internal contradictions and inability to see what we can see. Rose is somewhat heroic here, managing and putting up with Martin. Of course there‘s more to that in Rose, prompted as she is by some jealousy. Still, she‘s being way more than reasonable. 10mo

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Currey @Lcsmcat We all seem to be having that kind of day! Martin is certainly more aware and working harder at keeping up the delusion regarding his feelings toward Judith. He knows he is being foolish. Mrs Sellars has her own delusions about her relationship with Martin. Martin‘s comment about loving Mrs Sellars the most when he isn‘t with her as he can then provide both sides of the dialogue really summed it up for me. (edited) 10mo

Graywacke I‘m of two minds of Martin on Judith. In many ways he is between normal caring and in-love with Judith and he honestly doesn‘t know where his emotions truly are. In many ways he has a father‘s or brother‘s affection. But also he‘s the leering fool he imagined he observed the doctor to be. Clearly his affection for Judith has washed out his love of Rose, but it‘s a different kind of affection. 👇 10mo

Graywacke 👆 Since he doesn‘t seem to know what it is, perhaps we can‘t know either. But we probably can know more than him. He‘s a mess. (edited) 10mo

Graywacke @Currey Martin‘s way of handling women? He prefers to think for them. Or, her prefers to mute their concerns… ?? 10mo

Lcsmcat @Currey We all win those arguments, don‘t we? And as to him loving her most when not with her, I almost used this quote “He knew now how much she loved him—but did he know how much he loved her?” 10mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I think he‘s convinced that he‘s being avuncular, but because he wants to be convinced. 10mo

Leftcoastzen I think Mrs Sellar is tired of all this nonsense. 10mo

Leftcoastzen I think though he‘s all over the place with his feelings for Judith & Rose , he seems to really care about the children. Made me ponder people I know who I think would be great parents who never had kids & terrible parents who shouldn‘t have had them! 10mo

Graywacke @Leftcoastzen I wonder at how Wharton‘s own childlessness plays in. Martin is discovering how much he really wanted children. Whereas Rose doesn‘t betray emotions of this sort one way or the other. (Is Rose young enough to still have children?) (edited) 10mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I get the impression Rose is on the edge of being able to have kids, but it‘s just a feeling. I think Wharton is being much kinder to the children than to any of the adults, so you might have a point. 10mo

CarolynM Still lagging behind, I‘m afraid. Hopefully I‘ll catch up for the final discussion. 10mo

batsy After calling him creepy in the first section, this is the part that made me like and empathise with Martin. I think he's unsure about how he feels about Judith (and maybe some of those feelings are a tad dodgy), but I like that the narrative places the reader within his confusion and genuine care, so to speak. "The fact is, we're none of us grown up" and "hugging himself for being on the children's side of the eternal barrier" made me like him. 10mo

Lcsmcat @CarolynM Jump in whenever you can. I always like your insights. 10mo

Lcsmcat @batsy I get that. Martin is a bit of a Peter Pan, but I don‘t think that gives him license to mess up Judith‘s life. She obviously doesn‘t feel toward him that way, given her excitement at his engagement. And he would be just one more adult unsettling these kids‘ lives. 10mo

batsy @Lcsmcat Oh yes, the Peter Pan comparison is perfect. 10mo

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Lcsmcat

The Children | Edith Wharton

We get a little more of the Wharton bite in this Book. She‘s kinder to the children than to their parents. I was reminded of Pauline and her schedule (from Twilight Sleep) in the last section. Still, I don‘t know what to make of Martin. I don‘t think he‘s exactly being honest with himself regarding Judith. Thoughts? #whartonbuddyread

Graywacke

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Sparklemn @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 10mo

Currey @Lcsmcat Unlike others, I really thought that Martin would pull himself away from “liking” Judith after Book 1. I just didn‘t read it as that creepy. However, Wharton is clearly leading us to keep questioning his intentions and his motivations. So now I am thinking I read him incorrectly. 10mo

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Currey @Lcsmcat The children are more impossible and yet Wharton clearly makes their escape escapade seem totally reasonable given the state of their parents. 10mo

Currey @Lcsmcat And unfortunately Mrs Sellars is portrayed as very “staid” and I would have liked for one adult to be quite thoroughly upright AND likable (edited) 10mo

Lcsmcat @Currey Yes, I don‘t have much hope for Mrs. Sellers helping anything. She‘s more likely to be a complication. 10mo

arubabookwoman i agree that Martin is definitely heading toward creepy (and Mrs Sellars isn't discouraging that). And the parents and their cohorts are being portrayed as acting so badly as to be caricatures, and no longer based in reality. Despite this, I still like the book, and am going along with Wharton for the ride. (I have read this before). 10mo

batsy I had some hope in Mrs. Sellars when she meets Judith and says Judith is too young "for her responsibilities" because it's finally an adult seeing the truth but it didn't quite amount to much. I feel bad for these kids. This is a weird book (not a bad thing) but I'm just not sure what I make of it yet. 10mo

Lcsmcat @batsy I can‘t figure how Wharton is going to end this one. 10mo

Graywacke @batsy “it‘s a weird book” - borderline farce, no? But it hasn‘t crossed that line. The Lodi adults are both caricatures and a playful attack. 10mo

Graywacke Goodness, i still like foolish Martin and his manipulation by Judith. @Currey Mrs. Sellars is really disappointing. Why are they engaged if they don‘t like each other, but just have a friendly fondness? (They barely touch each other…or want to) Oh right, Wharton‘s characters don‘t communicate 🙂 10mo

Leftcoastzen I think Mrs. Sellers knows it‘s better to not get involved, she‘s “retired “ more or less. She and Martin , are they settling? I too , sense it‘s a question of them not ending up alone instead renewing a passion. Once Martin started advocating for the kids , Judith would see him as a lifeline. Is he too interested in Judith? We shall see. 10mo

Leftcoastzen And the parents! They want to see these kids now & then , show them off like little trophies, then put them down letting them fend for themselves, with meager hired help. No wonder the kids cling to each other. 10mo

cindyash @Leftcoastzen the parents may be caricatures, but while I think Wharton is having fun with them but I do believe theres a germ of truth in what she writes Ive taught childre of these kind of parents. so I wasnt really surprised

Martin is such an interesting character, you usually dont see men in this time getting involved so much with the children. I wonder if she has a person in mind like that 10mo

Leftcoastzen @cindyash I wondered too if Wharton knew a man like that . I keep thinking they are rich , why don‘t they just send them to boarding school, then I think about the stories about negative experiences in boarding school!🤨 10mo

batsy @Graywacke Yes, it's playing with the line of farce and social commentary. Hence the Twilight mood seems heightened here, a dash of Fitzgerald, but she dials it down with Martin's inner voice. 10mo

Lcsmcat @batsy I like “dash of Fitzgerald “ - very apt. Wharton seems to have turned a corner from criticizing the staid “old New York” to critiquing the newer rich. I agree that it is Martin‘s inner voice that grounds the story and keeps it from being farce. But he‘s also the most fully-realized character, with all the others more or less two dimensional which makes me wonder if she‘s actually doing more of a character study on him than 👇🏻 10mo

Lcsmcat 👆🏻 social commentary on the rich - nouveau or otherwise. 10mo

Lcsmcat @Leftcoastzen @cindyash I had the boarding school thought too. But the parents don‘t seem to value education enough to even warrant that much effort. 10mo

cindyash @Lcsmcat hee really not sure which book it is but one parent was shocked to find that Morroco wasnt in South Africa “well then where is it Id like to know“ 10mo

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Graywacke

The Children | Edith Wharton

Reading with the #whartonbuddyread Actually, i started a week ago, just never posted.

cindyash Hi, found you. really looking forward to this discussion. Ive finished it, but will not spoil anything.... 10mo

Graywacke @cindyash hi. I‘m holding off reading your review until we finish. 🙂 10mo

cindyash @Graywacke yeah I was going to delete it but you can probably avoid it. I could put spoiler notice up!
10mo

Graywacke @cindyash no need to delete it. I know. 10mo

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Lcsmcat

The Children | Edith Wharton

It took four chapters before the “nursery tangle” gets untangled, but at last, the cast of the title characters is revealed. What do you make of Judith? Martin? And the parents (when we finally meet them.) Wharton has addressed the neglect of the children of the rich as an aside in previous books, but I don‘t think she‘s going to let the adults off the hook in this one. #whartonbuddyread

Graywacke

Lcsmcat
@mdm139 @graywacke @jewright @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @Cathythoughts @Crazeedi @Currey @dabbe @emilyhaldi @IMASLOWREADER 10mo

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Sparklemn @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 10mo

Lcsmcat Two quotes that I marked: “The Wheaters he knew must have been married nearly twenty years ago; and Cliffe Wheater, in the interval, had made money enough to treat himself to half-a-dozen divorces and remarriages, with all the attendant outlay.” 10mo

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Lcsmcat “And yet he was disappointed, for he was already busy at the masculine task of endowing the woman of the moment with every quality which made life interesting to himself.” (Martin of Judith in the church.) 10mo

Suet624 I started this and then it got yanked away from me (Hoopla). I was fascinated by the cast of characters and was just getting the hang of them all. Hope to be able to get it back soon 10mo

Lcsmcat @Suet624 You almost need a chart, don‘t you? 10mo

Suet624 That would definitely be helpful. 😊 10mo

Currey @Lcsmcat I am also enjoying Mr Boyne. Because he has a bit of a crush on Judith he sees her maturity until they are in the cathedral where he realizes she isn‘t fully formed intellectually at all. He sees the children as individuals not just a gang and he largely sympathizes with them over the irresponsible adults 10mo

arubabookwoman i kept remembering Suzy and Nick in Glimpses of the Moon in the borrowed villa in which the daughter of the wealthy owner was abandoned while she was off on a fling. Wharton here is going to explore further the plight of the children of her wealthy dilettantes. Judith intrigues me. How did she become so mature and commensensical at such a young age, esp. with such parents--none of the younger children seems to have that trait. 10mo

arubabookwoman but it is great how Wharton has made each of the children individuals, with distinct personalities, even in the little bit we've seen of them so far. Was anyone else surprised that the young boy Terry was placed in a room with a complete stranger on the boat? And that once reunited with their parents the children were housed in a different hotel? (edited) 10mo

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman I too thought of the little girl in Glimpses of the Moon. 10mo

Graywacke Just taking in names and relationships and trying to understand motives and wondering what it would be like being one of these kids cruising around Europe. Wharton seems to be having fun with charm and a maybe more resigned social critique. Martin isn‘t being honest with himself or his motivations. I did think it was funny when the nanny reveals to us that they‘re manipulating Martin. 10mo

Leftcoastzen The poor little rich girl/ boy idea comes to mind . The children are worldly in a way because they have been so many places though most would agree the attention & love from parents is so important and totally lacking. One of the kids said something that made me Lol early in the book. Should have written it down. 10mo

jewright I‘m sympathizing with poor Terry who just wants a tutor, so he can learn like other boys. I see irresponsible parents every day as a teacher. I‘m not sure if it‘s comforting or discouraging that they‘ve always existed. 10mo

Leftcoastzen And to Judith. The family is lucky to have her yet she has no opportunity to have had normal personal experiences as an individual adolescent & teen as she is all about caring for the little ones. 10mo

batsy There's a different quality to Wharton's writing here that I find interesting. Can't quite put my finger on it but it's reminding me of British middlebrow fiction (all the Furrowed Middlebrow imprint books :) There's a part of me that's cringing in earnest about Martin's obsession with Judith because of the age gap. Very icky. The part where Judith says she won't have time to read or do anything really because she'll have to care for the children! 10mo

batsy @arubabookwoman Yes! Good memory, because I'd forgotten about that until you brought it up 🙂 This does have some similarities in tone and mood to Moon. 10mo

Lcsmcat @batsy I‘m struggling to put my finger on the difference in Wharton‘s tone. Less biting maybe? I‘ll have to ponder this more. The potential for a Martin-Judith relationship has me cringing too, but it feels like maybe he‘s moving away from that and realizing how young she really is. 10mo

Lcsmcat @jewright Poor Terry! No one recognizes what he has to offer because he isn‘t what they expect him to be. But he‘s so self possessed and aware of what _he_ needs. I really like him. The “foreign” steps make me laugh, Zinnie is harder for me to like, but I‘m trying to keep an open heart. 10mo

Lcsmcat @Leftcoastzen Judith has a bad bargain for sure. And you wonder if this kind of childhood leads to the selfish adult behavior. Kind of a “I didn‘t get to do these things as a kid so I‘m going to do them now” idea? 10mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @batsy - on the writing - the less biting tone - I think much of Wharton‘s writing had ambitious intents - to establish her, to shock NY, to share her experiences, to look back on her history, to look at (and undermine?) her own optimism. But none of that is here. She‘s an established best-selling writer. She has pressed. Here she‘s indulging herself and experimenting on more subtle ways. This is my unedited thinking out loud. 10mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @batsy on Martin and Judith - we have seen Wharton‘s courtships and they can begin this way, with no intent. No conscious admission of courting by either person. So she‘s playing hard with an improper relationship. Safe on the surface, but readers are thinking about it, whether we want to or not. It‘s weird… And I‘m pretty sure she wants us thinking about it, and to be a little uncomfortable. 10mo

Graywacke @arubabookwoman @Leftcoastzen @batsy @Lcsmcat What bothers me most about Judith is that everyone is ok with her fate and role. Terry needs a tutor, but Judith can just be nanny. Well, of course. I don‘t sense much tension there in writer or characters. (And why doesn‘t the nanny, you know, nanny? Shouldn‘t she take charge?) 10mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Oh she definitely wants us to think about a Martin - Judith relationship! (Thus the quote I posted above.) My question is whether or not Martin will be/become aware enough to leave her alone. 10mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Judith has her hands full with more than the kids. She‘s got to manage the servants and they‘re taking advantage of the fact that their ostensible employers aren‘t interested in paying attention. And Judith seems resigned to her fate, doesn‘t she? It‘s almost like Terry‘s illness gave him power that none of the others have to just be himself. 10mo

Leftcoastzen @Lcsmcat @Graywacke I agree totally! As I read In my brain I‘m yelling the hired help needs to do their jobs!😄poor Judith managing that too. Families can be like that , giving no cares about Judith‘s fate & role. 10mo

Leftcoastzen I love how Wharton seems to find a character to feature that has an old association with someone & gets drawn into a hot mess like this. Martin is in over his head . 10mo

Lcsmcat @Leftcoastzen Good observation. Wharton does explore “loose ties” in a lot of her fiction. 10mo

TheBookHippie I like Judith. I too wondered if or what we are suppose yo be thinking. This feels like being told a story rather than in the story if that makes sense. It seems stage is set but for what? 10mo

Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie Interesting that you feel outside of the story. I feel like we‘re sort of in Martin‘s mind, but that he himself isn‘t as aware as he could be. Coming from the “wilderness” he is meant to see through the eyes of an outsider, but he‘s also an insider. 10mo

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat I know -what does that say about me 😅 10mo

batsy @Lcsmcat @Graywacke Less biting for sure & I think @TheBookHippie nails it in terms of stage setting. It's early days yet but this first part still feels introductory. We get glimpses of the usual astute Wharton when she allows us into Martin's mind (Though I don't quite like all that I find in there! The idea of the moldable young woman; her innocence and lack of interest in what moves him, but caring for kids animates her. Yeah ok, Martin! 🤢) 10mo

batsy @Graywacke Agreed—the adults seem far too comfortable with how much Judith has to take on. 10mo

cindyash @arubabookwoman I was so surprised how well she drew those children! Wasnt expecting that somehow, Also showing Boyne to be so caring, . Quite the difference from the parents. Just awful people. 10mo

cindyash @Leftcoastzen yeah some one need to remind him the road to hell is paved with good intentions But what a wonderful thing he is doing? good role model for the kids. the parent could take a few lessons from him 10mo

Lcsmcat @cindyash She portrays the kids so lovingly in all their individuality that it makes me think Wharton must have known children like them. 10mo

21 likes36 comments

Leftcoastzen

The Children | Edith Wharton

#whartonbuddyread Yay! I finished book 1 ! It is called the children for a reason, there are many children in it!😁Looking forward to the discussion tomorrow. The is the bookstore sticker inside the back cover of this book.

Lcsmcat, Graywacke

LeahBergen Cool! 10mo

Lcsmcat That is so cool! 10mo

batsy Quite a vast number of children indeed 😂 10mo

47 likes3 comments

Leftcoastzen

The Children | Edith Wharton

#whartonbuddyread Here I go! Hopefully will get through book one in time for discussion on the 27th.Found this lovely original edition at a cheap book sale!

Lcsmcat, Graywacke

LeahBergen So pretty! 10mo

Graywacke Beautiful. 😍. And you have time 🙂 It‘s not a long section. 10mo

Lcsmcat Wow, what a find! 10mo

batsy Great find 🤩 10mo

48 likes4 comments

LitsyEvents

The Children | Edith Wharton

Via @ Lcmscat

Quick reminder that discussions start next
Saturday! #Whartonbuddyread

40 likes

Lcsmcat

The Children | Edith Wharton

Quick reminder that discussions start next Saturday! #Whartonbuddyread

Graywacke, LitsyEvents

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Sparklemn @Suet624 @TheBookHippie 10mo

Graywacke Ok, ebook acquired. I‘ve started. 10mo

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IMASLOWREADER oh cool 10mo

CarolynM I‘ll try to join in, but I still haven‘t finished Twilight Sleep 😬 My reading is not what it should be. 10mo

batsy I haven't started but will try my best! 10mo

Currey @batsy @Lcsmcat Along with Betsy, I have not started but I did note that Book 1 is short. 10mo

Lcsmcat @Currey It is short, but so far the characters are intriguing. 10mo

TheBookHippie Free copy https://archive.org/details/children0000edit_d4r0 in case anyone needs it! 10mo

Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie Thanks! I always forget about them for fiction. (I use them a lot for genealogy resources.) 10mo

TheBookHippie @Lcsmcat 🙃 10mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat - please add @cindyash to the tag list. Thanks 10mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke @cindyash Absolutely! 10mo

Graywacke @CarolynM i hope you‘re able to enjoy what you‘re reading. Twilight Sleep has a curious and maybe entertaining end. 10mo

Currey @batsy Apologies for the autocorrect changing your name to Betsy. When I went to fix it Litsy went down and I gave up. 10mo

batsy @Currey No worries at all, it's a username based on a silly nickname friends gave me in school 😆 10mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat hmm. My edition has a Book iv. Is it incorrect or do we need to adjust the schedule? Maybe add a week? 10mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I‘ll take a look when I get home from work, but I can certainly add another week. 10mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Yep. Don‘t know how I missed that, but we will add Book 4 on May 18. Good catch! 10mo

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Good solution. And glad I‘m not crazy. 🙂 10mo

29 likes20 comments

Lcsmcat

The Children | Edith Wharton

Good morning #whartonbuddyread! Are we ready for the Children? (Is anyone ever really ready for children? 😂) This one‘s just under 300 pages and divided into 3 books. I‘m proposing starting April 27 for Book 1, May 4 and 11 for books 2 & 3. Does that work for everyone?

Graywacke

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Sparklemn @Suet624 @TheBookHippie 11mo

arubabookwoman i'm looking forward to this one. It's typical Wharton in many ways, but a darker theme--how the children, of the rich adults we've seen so much of, fare, as they are dragged around the world, but basically ignored, with constantly changing step-parents and step siblings and half siblings. When I read it years ago there are parts that reminded me of Lolita, to the extent I wondered if Nabokov had it in mind. 11mo

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batsy Looking forward to it. Things are a bit hectic atm but I'll try my best to join in and keep to the schedule! 11mo

Lcsmcat @arubabookwoman Interesting thought. I‘ll keep that in the back of my mind as I read. 11mo

Lcsmcat @batsy Same here. What‘s up with this spring? 11mo

Graywacke Sounds good @Lcsmcat ! I‘ll likely be quiet May 4, traveling. But this schedule works for me. Wish you and @batsy RL breaks. 11mo

TheBookHippie Crazy busy but yes. 😵‍💫🙃 11mo

Currey Sounds okay to me. Thanks 11mo

batsy @Graywacke Thanks 🙂 11mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Thanks. Chime in when you can, and safe travels. 11mo

Lcsmcat @TheBookHippie @Currey Great. 11mo

Suet624 I keep missing out on reading these. 🥴😫 11mo

Lcsmcat @Suet624 Join us this time! It‘s a shorter one. 11mo

Suet624 @Lcsmcat my problem lies in finding the book! Hoopla has it but I literally have to wake up at 2 am to grab it before the daily collective quota allowed for the entire library system is hit. It‘s weird. I‘ll try though. 🤨 11mo

Lcsmcat @Suet624 I have the entire works of Edith Wharton as an ebook that cost 1.99 (I think. It might have been .99) Or you could try Project Gutenberg. I‘m not sure if it‘s under copyright still or not. 11mo

Suet624 Shoot. I always forget about Project Gutenberg. I‘ll check that out now. 11mo

jewright I‘m in! 11mo

jewright @Suet624–I bought the Kindle complete works. It was pretty inexpensive and has had everything. 11mo

Suet624 @jewright Thanks! However, I don‘t use Kindle because it‘s owned by Amazon. I know…my little protest amounts to nothing really, but I try not to give amazon any money. 11mo

Lcsmcat @jewright Great! 11mo

CarolynM I will try to join in, but I was lagging behind on Twilight Sleep all the way and I still haven‘t finished, so I‘ll just have to see how I‘m going at the end of the month🙂 11mo

Leftcoastzen I will try to keep up this time . 10mo

Lcsmcat @Leftcoastzen 🙂 10mo

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