About a Girl | 
Do you judge a book by its title? One of the categories for #litsyreadingchallenge is 'a book with girl(s) in the title'.
There are hundreds of "girlbooks", of all genres and types. I have a whole stack of posts about girlbooks coming up, but first:
What do you think of this trend?
Do you prejudge girlbooks?
Is "girl" rather than "woman" offensive?
Will the trend ever abate?
#girlinthetitle #girlbooks #litsychallenge2017
BookishFeminist This drives me nuts unless it's actually about someone under 18 or so. There are some books with "boy" in the title too, but they tend to be about actual boys with some outliers rather than adult men. Using "girl" in book titles as well as other uses to refer to adult women is a way of infantilizing women & treating them as inferior. I have complicated thoughts on it since I do agree it's ok in some contexts but overall it's a bad language habit. 8y
EliseBlackwell Emily St. John Mandel has a good analysis at 538, including the likelihood of the 'girl' to die if the book was written by a man versus a woman. 8y
Moray_Reads @BookishFeminist Yes to all of this! I also think it's incredibly lazy, condescending marketing too, jumping on the bandwagon of the success of a couple of instantly recognisable "girl" titles. I'm so sick of seeing it I refuse to read any of them 8y
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Marchpane @BookishFeminist it's a feature of spoken English currently too. I know I struggle to refer to peers my own age as 'women' or 'men'. But it's usually 'guy' rather than 'boy' for the men. 'Kids' is a common term for anyone under 30 now as well. 8y
chlobee I didn't have anything against it initially, since it was simple and ~mysterious~ for a title....but now it's become an exhausted trend and I see it as lazy more than anything. 8y
Shortstack @BookishFeminist preach!! 👏👏👏 8y
BookishFeminist @Moray_Reads Yes, exactly! I'll read them depending on whether it was written by a woman depending on context. Example: Girl with a Lower Back Tattoo, Around the Way Girl - celebrity memoirs who are re-appropriating the term as slang are ok in my opinion, or some YA titles like The Girl from Everywhere. But poor examples: The Girl on the Train, Gone Girl, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo = about adult women & shouldn't be used in this context. 8y
Marchpane @Moray_Reads strong stance there! I wonder if 'woman' titles (like The Woman in Cabin 10) are now used to stand out from the crowd? 8y
BookishFeminist @Marchpane Yep It is. I refer to young adults as "young men" or "young women" because I won't refer to adolescents & adults as "girls and boys." But in slang in my friend circles I will often use "guys" or "ladies" (both which have their own connotations but here we are, lol). Language is a complicated thing and there are so many hidden sexist nuances. Used in professional contexts using "girl" or "young lady" is a microaggression imo. (edited) 8y
saresmoore It took me a solid year, but I was finally able to break my husband of the habit of referring to young female coworkers as girls. I hadn't really thought about it in book titles, but now that you mention it... Also, @Marchpane I think the whole "kids" thing is a sad, self-deprecating millennial-ism. This all begs the question of inherent human value and what determines adulthood. Sigh. 8y
Marchpane @EliseBlackwell it's interesting that in that article Mandel says we haven't yet reached 'peak girl' 😳@chlobee agree, due to overuse it now reads as lazy. 8y
Marchpane @chlobee 👆my comment didn't tag you properly 8y
BookishFeminist @saresmoore I've had similar problems with men in my life referring to female coworkers as "girls." Hard but important habit to break. I've been referred to as a "girl" or "young lady" when I was working at a law office as an attorney and I went off- it's incredibly degrading. 8y
lisakoby This trend makes me think of women in their 20's that self-reference as girl. This is my first big girl job was a recent direct quote from a new staff member. 8y
Marchpane @saresmoore unfortunately it is boomers and gen Xers in my workplaces referring to millennials as kids. Terribly patronising but can't seem to break them of this habit. HR decided using the word "staff" for anyone below management level was verboten, so "kids" filled the void. 8y
BookishFeminist @Marchpane ?!?! That's really inappropriate & very patronizing. As if boomers & gen x are gods gift to humanity. 8y
saresmoore @Marchpane Oh, that makes me cringe. Way to go, HR... @BookishFeminist I've come to expect being viewed as a lesser citizen since I have forsaken gainful employment to parent these last several years, but it seems no female—no matter how accomplished or successful—is immune to the pervasive "norm". I'm raising two daughters and feel the urge to be especially vigilant! 8y
Weaponxgirl I think a lot of books it's got to the lazy stage. I think context is everything, I have no problem with being called girl by my friends and I will greet my nearest and dearest with hey girl even though we're in our 30s. Yet if a man I don't know greeted me in the same way I would be infuriated. It has worked in books for me where the character is playing on the trope. Gone girl worked because Amy was playing being a nice girl and distorting that 8y
BookishFeminist @saresmoore go you!! it's a damn shame women or men who decide to take professional time off from their careers or "gainful employment" ? to raise children or explore other options expect to be seen as lesser citizens. who else is supposed to raise your family but the parents? It's a necessary part of society yet it's so frowned upon for no reason. Also this kicker: being frowned down upon for NOT taking much maternity leave if you don't want it! 8y
heatherspoetlife So this thread is making me grateful for my work environment. I've had an older man or two slip uo and throw in a 'girl' and all I have to say is 'Excuse me?' and he apologizes. I haven't been called girl to this extent since I was under 20. As far as with books, I'm with you all. Not a fan of using if unless the character in question is an actual girl and not a woman. 8y
Onioons I hadn't really noticed until I was at a quiz this summer and it was a question. What is the most common word used in top-ten selling books in the past couple of years. It seems 'girl' has great marketing potential. I think it was probably originally intended to signify kickass females, but ended up being patronising through overuse! 8y
Marchpane @Onioons I find it super interesting from a marketing perspective. What is it about this word in particular that sells books? 8y
Onioons I thought they were trying to cash in on The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and Gone Girl. Thinking that people who don't read very often, but who loved those books, could be easily convinced to read about another 'girl' protagonist? Or is that too simplistic and unfair? 8y
Marchpane @Onioons I thought so too, until I saw just how pervasive it actually is. Not just for blockbuster thriller type books. I'll be posting more about that. 8y
lynneamch I think using "girl" in historical fiction titles is different. With Girl in Disguise @theladygreer & Girl Waits with Gun @AmyStewart the authors are making a point as women break into the good-old-boys networks of 1856 &1914 crime-fighting. Kate Warne (1st female Pinkerton detective) & Constance Kopp (1st female US sheriff) are, in effect, saying, "Call me a girl? I'll show you you!" #litsyreadingchallenge 8y
Marchpane @lynneamch excellent point! The effect varies so much depending on the context. I really want to read Girl Waits With Gun too 😄 8y
Susannah Such an interesting discussion! I'm a little late, but I wanted to add that I was looking at the rock and roll memoirs on my shelf tonight, and right next to each were Kim Gordon's Girl in a Band and Carrie Brownstein's Hunger Makes Me a Modern Girl. The Brownstein title came from a Sleater-Kinney song, but I wondered if the Gordon title was hers or was encouraged by her publisher. I've never, ever thought of Kim Gordon as anything but a woman. 8y
Susannah Also, can we have a similar discussion about the trend of *The 's Wife*? I keep seeing these titles (latest was a Jessica Chastain movie called "The Zookeeper's Wife"), and they're driving me nuts. Agency shmagency. ? 8y
Marchpane @Susannah Apparently the Kim Gordon book was so-named because music journos would constantly ask her "what's it like to be a girl in a band?" Makes a bit more sense in that context but I agree they could have come up with a better title. Sonic Life perhaps? 8y
obviateit I'm SUPER late to this convo, and I have nothing poignant to add, but I agree with everything you all have said. 😊 8y
Loreen I'm really late to this conversation. But I have to say it's such an odd marketing trend. (edited) 8y
