The Fire-Dwellers

I purchased the Manawaka novels more than a year ago based on @vivastory discussion of them. So I thought I had the tagged book. Review of my shelves and a check with LibraryThing says no I don‘t. How did I miss this. Thanks to @TheKidUpstairs #auldlangspine2024 list I will be correcting that now and prioritizing getting to these as well this year.

monalyisha

Ruthiella Nice editions! 😍 12mo

Sapphire @Ruthiella University of Chicago Press. I thought so! 12mo

vivastory More Laurence! I love to see it 💙 12mo

TheKidUpstairs I haven't read the whole series yet, but obviously I loved Fire Dwellers, and The Diviners is one of my all time favourite books. 12mo

TheKidUpstairs These editions are lovely! 12mo

21 likes5 comments

TheKidUpstairs

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

pick

Pitch perfect rendering of the rapid, constant whir of noise inside the brain of a parent who is solely responsible for the emotional labour of a household. The never-ending recitation of tasks, doubts, plans, questions, the "fuck-its", etc when you are trying to keep all the balls in the air for everyone, and the overstimulation of everyday noise joining the cacophony.

youneverarrived Putting this higher on the tbr! 2y

batsy Great review. It such a good book. 2y

TheKidUpstairs @youneverarrived @batsy it really is so good. I had read The Diviners in high school and loved it but had never read the rest of the Manawaka sequence. So I've decided to rectify that, but figured since I started with Diviners I can read them all out of order 🤷‍♀️ I was so impressed with how modern this one felt. 2y

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BarbaraBB

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

#12BooksOf2021

I am sharing my almost-favorites of the year. The ones who didn‘t make my #Top21Of21 but are favorites nevertheless. One for each month.

In #September I joined the #manawakans buddyread, in which we read all books by Laurence set in the fictional Canadian place Manawaka. What a discovery. She is a master in bringing her characters to life. And what a characters they are!

Andrew65

vivastory #manawakans forever! I selected The Stone Angel & The Diviners for my #top21of21 but I could have easily also included both Fire-Dwellers AND Jest of God. 3y

LeahBergen I really loved our buddy read of this series this year! ❤️❤️ @vivastory 3y

Andrew65 Sounds great. 3y

Suet624 I need to remember to find this one. 3y

59 likes4 comments

batsy

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

pick

This book is formally inventive, searing & uncompromising in its depiction of the drama & banality of everyday life for a mother & wife. I love the way it depicts the way consciousness works, & while it initially took me some time to adjust to the style, it made Stacy's experiences feel immediate & true. There's no sugarcoating the struggles & limits everyone faces in terms of trying to live a life on one's own terms. Laurence isn't here to play.

batsy Thanks for all of your lovely insights and reviews @BarbaraBB @LeahBergen @merelybookish @vivastory #manawakans 3y

BarbaraBB So true. I feel we #Manawakans could have been true friends in real life. and have Laurence visiting us. Great insights below @merelybookish post ❤️ 3y

merelybookish Laurence is not here to play! 😉 Which makes one wonder again why she is not better known. Also, the afterword to my edition suggested this book did not fare well with (male) reviewers. And I agree @BarbaraBB we would make a great group of real-life friends, but grateful for the virtual friendship too. 3y

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batsy @BarbaraBB @merelybookish We would all definitely get on like a house on fire 💕 (the fire-dwellers 😉) 3y

batsy @merelybookish Why am I not surprised about how male reviewers responded to it? 🙃 3y

BarbaraBB That‘s why I‘m so glad we have @vivastory 😃 (edited) 3y

vivastory @batsy @merelybookish @barbarabb I am very dismayed, but not terribly surprised to hear that it wasn't received as well as it should have been by male reviewers. Laurence excels at creating memorable female characters, but so many of the anxieties & concerns feel universal 3y

vivastory & I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that we'd be great friends irl, & am thankful for the virtual friendships 3y

LeahBergen @BarbaraBB @merelybookish @batsy @vivastory yes, indeed! #ManawakansFOREVER 👏🏻👏🏻 And another great review, @batsy ! 3y

rubyslippersreads Another interesting cover for this one. 3y

Cathythoughts I havnt read … but your review is sober & serious in the best way 3y

batsy @LeahBergen Thank you! Love that tag 💜 3y

batsy @rubyslippersreads Not sure whether I like it, but it's a very evocative cover that suits the book. 3y

batsy @Cathythoughts Thank you Cathy, I highly recomn Laurence 👍🏽 3y

Cathythoughts Stacking 😁 3y

nathandrake1997 Exquisite review ❤️❤️❤️❤️ 3y

batsy @nathandrake1997 Thank you! ♥️ 3y

Centique Lovely review Suba! I have got a Margaret Laurence coming up on my TBR and I know now that it will be good 🙌 3y

SherryJones This is a new author for me — thank you so much! 3y

batsy @Centique Thank you! I think you'll find her very much worth reading ❤️ 3y

batsy @SherryJones Thanks for reading! 🙂 3y

SherryJones Thank you! I‘ve just stacked this book and I‘m going to order some Margaret Laurence asap 3y

SherryJones It‘s so telling that she‘s not a household name. So many terrific authors are not famous. I‘m delighted to discover her! 3y

batsy @SherryJones Yes! It's sad to think about how many are soon forgotten if they aren't consistently championed and republished by bigger publishers. 3y

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LeahBergen

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

pick

Stacey is a stay-at-home 1960s Mum with 4 children, a silent husband, and an inner monologue that rails and jeers at the mundanity of her everyday life.

I initially thought I‘d find this narrative voice of simultaneous, rapid fire inner and outer observations a bit off putting but I rapidly embraced it. Stacey‘s thoughts on aging may have hit a little too close to home 😆 but I loved this third Manawaka novel as much as the first two.

merelybookish, batsy, vivastory, BarbaraBB

LeahBergen A quote from a 1967 letter from Margaret Laurence while she was writing this novel: 👇🏻 3y

LeahBergen “Thought I had discovered a sensational new narrative method the other evening—there was only one thing wrong with it; in practice, it proved to be unreadable. Thought of it in terms of the inner and outer going on simultaneously, side by side on the page—fine if you had a two-foot wide page and a reader with four eyes.” 3y

BarbaraBB Well she did manage to combine them and make a very readable and relatable book. Great review too! ❤️ 3y

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merelybookish Lots of railing! Well said. And that is a great quote. And mostly I found I could follow the two voices. I only got confused a few times when she was talking to someone else and there was dialogue as well as inner dialogue. 🙂 3y

LeahBergen #Manawakans 3y

LeahBergen @BarbaraBB Yes, relatable is the word for it. 👍 3y

LeahBergen @merelybookish Once I figured out that her thoughts generally followed an em dash it was smooth sailing. 😆 3y

TrishB Great review 👍🏻 3y

batsy It took me some time to adjust to the style, as well, but then it clicked and felt exactly like that—seeing the world from the outside and being inside her head. Thank you for sharing that quote; that was really interesting! 3y

vivastory Stellar review, Leah! I love the quote from Laurence's letter. I agree with @merelybookish that the only time I had difficulty following along was on occasion when she was in dialogue with someone & it'd alternate between her inner voice & the dialogue. 3y

Cathythoughts Excellent review ❤️ 3y

rubyslippersreads Great cover! Think I‘ll have to add this to my TBR. 3y

LeahBergen @TrishB @Cathythoughts Thanks, you two! 😘😘 3y

LeahBergen @batsy @vivastory Thanks! Yeah, that quote by Laurence really gave me pause for thought and made me realize just how innovative her process was for the time. 3y

LeahBergen @rubyslippersreads Have you read The Stone Angel? Or … have I bought it for you? 🤣 3y

rubyslippersreads @LeahBergen No, but I think I may have a copy somewhere. Do I need to read it first? 3y

LeahBergen @rubyslippersreads No, you don‘t. It‘s the first of the Manawaka books but they are all stand-alones. All five books deal with different women from the small prairie town of Manawaka, Manitoba. 3y

Centique I realised I have a Margaret Laurence book coming up on my TBR to get read before the end of the year (I hope) and it‘s The Stone Angel. I‘m looking forward to it thanks to your great review 🙌 3y

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merelybookish

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

pick

Stacey McAindra is a 39 year-old married, stay-at-home mother of four. Her husband is stressed and uncommunicative. She drinks too much. She wants to lose 10 lbs. She dreams of dancing. She feels bored, trapped, and aimless. I think we are supposed to feel by the end she has gained some peace and acceptance about her life. It was a believable ending and, at the same time, a letdown. Of course it's good to find some meaning and joy in what might 👇

merelybookish be small or seemingly trivial moments. But gosh darnit, is dancing off limits for a middle age woman? There's no recapturing youth but aging felt pretty depressing. I guess it goes without saying that I related a lot to Stacey...and I guess I wanted something a bit more for her, although I don't know what that would be. Laurence is so good at telling the truth of women's lives. Maiden, madonna, crone. No role is easy. 3y

merelybookish Artwork by Canadian Mary Pratt. #manawakans @BarbaraBB b @vivastory @batsy @LeahBergen 3y

BarbaraBB Fantastic review. I was a bit let down that she accepted life (she‘s only 39!) in the end, I hoped for something more too. But then again, it felt reassuring as well. Oh we complicated women 😃😘 3y

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LeahBergen Wonderful review! I was initially let down, too, when I saw the way the ending was heading but then I started thinking how much “growth” had occurred. Mac opens up to her in completely new ways and she comes to a realization of just how strong she is. @BarbaraBB 3y

BarbaraBB @LeahBergen you are right. The relationship with Mac became more important and meaningful and I think she realized how much that meant - comparing to what could have been with Luke (was that his name?) 3y

LeahBergen @BarbaraBB Although I WAS glad she had that fling with Luke … especially after Mac confessed to having sex with that workmate of his. 🤣 3y

merelybookish @BarbaraBB @LeahBergen I was also glad she had a fling and that neither infidelity became that important. Or they both served a purpose but didn't become the focus. Stacey realizes she would eventually have the same issues with Luke that she has with Mac. 3y

BarbaraBB @merelybookish @LeahBergen She IS wise! 3y

batsy I haven't finished, but will come back to this review (and the tempting spoilers!) once I have :) 3y

vivastory Fantastic review! I think that the ending to this one was much more resigned & bittersweet in a way than the previous two books. To me this makes it almost more tragic than the others. I also agree with the comments in the thread about the infidelities didn't serve as a crisis point in the narrative, as well as that she'd have the same issues with Luke. 3y

vivastory Also, how bizarre were some of the scenes? The vitamin plan itself was slightly surreal & then the Tupperware party at her neighbors house & what is eventually revealed about Thor.. 3y

Cathythoughts Great review 👍🏻 3y

merelybookish @vivastory The Richlife and Tupperware party really stuck out to me because I had just read a bit article about the LuLaRoe miniseries on tv. It made me think about them more than I might have otherwise. And also Buckle's death. Another major event that kind of gets subsumed by day to day. 3y

vivastory @merelybookish I was unaware of the LuLaRoe documentary, but I'm very intrigued. It reminds me of a show that I have slowly been making my way through: American Hustle. The most recent episode that I watched focused on the case in the tagged book, what was interesting to me was how poorly the author came across

My Friend Anna: The True Story of a Fake Heiress

vivastory *Oops, Generation Hustle. Not American Hustle. 3y

merelybookish @Cathythoughts Thanks Cathy! 3y

merelybookish @vivastory I have not heard of Generation Hustle, but I had heard of that fake German heiress. The LuLaRoe conversation talked about how MLMs exploit women (usually stay at home mothers) who need to find a way to support their unpaid labour but then end up exploiting other women. To tie it back to the book, none of the women in Fire-Dwellers seemed particularly happy. And the Tupperware party felt like a con, one Stacey could see through. 3y

vivastory Stacey had an excellent bs detector. She was even aware of her own. I think that makes for a lively, & interesting, character. 3y

batsy @LeahBergen @BarbaraBB @merelybookish I felt that disappointment initially too when I saw how it would end, but it felt very much like life because you can also see the growth & awareness. The way she keeps thinking I can't keep going on with this life, but I must and I will. Like her pure terror of inviting Matthew to stay with them, feeling like she won't be able to cope, but doing it anyway. I loved how Laurence depicted these inner struggles! 3y

BarbaraBB I agree @batsy that it didn‘t feel like a let-down to me. Laurence really succeeded in making her more adult or at least in peace with life as it is. @merelybookish @vivastory I loved those weird add-on‘s like the Tupperware party and Buckle‘s death! Afterwards I read this one and the story in almost similar - including the Tupperware!

Nightbitch

batsy @BarbaraBB Yes, the Tupperware party bits had a bit of a fever dream Stepford Wives element to it! 3y

merelybookish @batsy @BarbaraBB @LeahBergen I think my reaction to this book is tied to how "close to the bone it is" (to quote something @Centique said to a poem I posted). I have felt how marriage and motherhood can be trivializing. And then there's aging! I'm 10 years older than Stacey and am feeling it! So while I think there is truth, wisdom, growth in Stacey's ending, selfishly I also wanted her to burn it all down. ?? 3y

batsy @merelybookish I hear you! I think what surprised me is that I went in thinking it was a burn it all down book, and I would have totally been on board 😅, but Laurence took a different route and the way she made that work and the quiet wisdom at play also surprised me in a good way. 3y

BarbaraBB Exactly @batsy I can so relate to what @merelybookish says and all of it is so close to the bone but fortunately the ending too. And I realize I finally may be at peace myself too 😉 (edited) 3y

LeahBergen Oh my, yes! That “close to the bone” feeling was almost uncomfortable at times! And I couldn‘t believe that revelation about Thor. I loved that he was just a little prairie town Manawakan like she was. 🤣🤣 @vivastory 3y

60 likes25 comments

merelybookish

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

Wow, this is such an honest depiction of many of the complicated/conflicted feelings (love, guilt, resentment, responsibility, loneliness, uncertainty) of motherhood. And I'm guessing pretty ahead of its time.
As with A Jest of God I'm wondering how this story can end in a way that feels good for the main character. I know she pulled it off for Rachel. Hoping she doesnit for Stacey too. 🤞
@batsy @BarbaraBB @vivastory @LeahBergen #manawakans

LeahBergen Me, too! 🤞 3y

vivastory For some reason I didn't receive the tag notification, so I'm just now seeing this. I will be very curious to see what you think of the ending. 3y

BarbaraBB I was wondering about this being ahead of its time too. Is it? 1969 isn‘t that long ago. She could have been my mother… but it‘s on point anyhow. 3y

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batsy It's very "the personal is political" and she's reminding me of Lessing, though maybe different stylistically. It makes me wonder why Laurence is not more acclaimed (outside of CanLit circles, to my admittedly limited knowledge). 3y

merelybookish @BarbaraBB I don't feel the dissatisfaction with being a housewife/SAHM is ahead or its time but the complicated feelings about mothering feels nuanced for 1969. But maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure people felt that way. Just not sure many people expressed it openly. 3y

merelybookish @batsy I am curious about that too. Especially since both Atwood and Munro do have international readerships, and I feel they somewhat follow in the shoes of Laurence. 3y

BarbaraBB @merelybookish I agree, many people still don‘t expressly openly - I know it felt a bit rebellious that I personally could feel very bored with my kids when they were small and that I kept wondering if I was the only one feeling that way. 3y

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merelybookish

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

After being so proud of myself for finding my copy of Fire-Dwellers after the move, I went and misplaced it. 🤦 Fortunately found an e-copy through Libby.
Struck by how much I relate to Stacey and her inner dialogue and thoughts on motherhood. (Do I say that about all Laurence's heroines? 🤔) Also, Mac's new company sounds like a current MLM.
@vivastory @batsy @LeahBergen @BarbaraBB #manawakans

vivastory Glad to hear that Libby pulled through! I agree about Mac's job. I had the same thought. 3y

batsy Yep, that was struck me about Mac's job. And I feel absolutely the same about how hard I relate to Laurence's female protagonists! I'll be interested to see if it's the same with Hagar (when I finally get around to it). 3y

LeahBergen And Stacey‘s views on aging! Ooph. 3y

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LeahBergen

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

Okay, #Manawakans!

I‘ve caught up on my book club read so I‘m picking this one up to start tonight.

merelybookish, batsy, vivastory, BarbaraBB

vivastory I haven't seen this cover 👀 3y

LeahBergen @vivastory It‘s the Penguin Modern Classics Canadian edition. They‘re quite nice! My copy of A Jest of God was also from this series. 3y

BarbaraBB Nice edition 👌🏽 3y

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LeahBergen @BarbaraBB i like her shoes. 😆 3y

shawnmooney FOMO! 😭😭💕💕 (edited) 3y

batsy I haven't seen this cover before either and I do like those shoes! 😆 3y

Tamra Amazing cover! 3y

merelybookish Gorgeous copy! I'm also starting finally! 3y

quietjenn Great copy! 3y

LeahBergen @shawnmooney 🤣🤣 3y

LeahBergen @batsy @Tamra @merelybookish @quietjenn It is, isn‘t it? Such a vintage suburbia vibe. 3y

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CarolynM

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

Tagged. Stacked on the recommendation of @BarbaraBB
Cherries 🍒 Love them!
I've just started one I had been eagerly anticipating - The Man Who Died Twice. Looking forward to All's Well and Something Fabulous early next year and hoping for new books by Sulari Gentil and Gary Disher.
Sunshine☀️ and spring flowers 🌷

Thanks for the tag @Mavey and @Lizpixie
#WondrousWednesday

Eggs

Alwaysbeenaloverofbooks 🌷🌼🌸 3y

Eggs Thanks for playing 🌺🌺 3y

mavey No.4 is lovely!!🥰💖 3y

LeahBergen I‘m just starting the tagged book tonight. I‘ll share it with you, if you like? 😊 3y

CarolynM @LeahBergen That would be lovely! Thank you😘 3y

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BarbaraBB

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

pick

“I used to think there would be a blinding flash of light someday, and then I would be wise and calm and would know how to cope with everything. Now I see that whatever I‘m like, I‘m pretty well stuck with it for life.”

Stacey is growing older and taking care of everyone around her takes its toll. Shouldn‘t there be something more? Set in the 1960s, in many ways it feels so similar to living and aging and motherhood right now. Thought provoking.

LeahBergen, merelybookish, batsy, vivastory

BarbaraBB Looking forward to discuss more of it with my fellow #Manawakans. (edited) 3y

BarbaraBB #Booked2021 #LesserKnownBook @Cinfhen @4thhouseontheleft @BarbaraTheBibliophage 3y

Cinfhen Nice review 💜sounds like a quiet but powerful novel 3y

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BarbaraBB @Cinfhen Thanks. It is. 3y

batsy Oof, that quote! 💔 I still haven't started 🙈 Nice review and I'm glad it was a pick for you! 3y

merelybookish Hard relate to that quote! 😐Hoping to start today! 3y

Cinfhen I got a package notification today!!! PO is closed today & tomorrow for YK hopefully I‘ll get to it on Friday 😊Thanks so much xx 3y

Cathythoughts Great quote ! I don‘t agree though 😁 3y

Megabooks That quote! Great review. 3y

vivastory Great review! I'm glad it worked so well for you. Laurence's work is filled with wonderful, if uncomfortable, insights. I think you'd really like Jest of God. It follows her sister Rachel. A very different character, but equally memorable. 3y

LeahBergen Lovely review! I haven‘t started yet either, @batsy 😬 3y

BarbaraBB @Cinfhen That took forever again! Glad it made it! Have a good Yom Kippur, hopefully no migraine 🤞🏽💜 (edited) 3y

BarbaraBB @merelybookish @Cathythoughts I am glad you don‘t agree, it‘s better. I sometimes do agree though 🤷🏻‍♀️ 3y

BarbaraBB @vivastory I will read it for sure. She really has her way with getting under your skin. 3y

merelybookish Oh I must have misspoke. I absolutely relate to this quote and much of Stacey's thinking (the ambivalence, harsh inner critic, etc 3y

BarbaraBB @merelybookish I probably misunderstood with my not so good English! 3y

BarbaraTheBibliophage Lovely review and picture. 3y

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BarbaraBB

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

And another great quote…
#Manawakans

LeahBergen, merelybookish, batsy, vivastory

LeahBergen 😆 Indeed! 3y

vivastory With every Laurence book that I have read I have been introduced to a new favorite character, & Fire-Dwellers is def no exception! I read about 80 pages today & am really loving it! It is different from both Stone Angel & Jest of God, but very memorable & full of great quotes, like the gem you posted 👏 3y

CarolynM 😂 Hard to disagree. 3y

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BarbaraBB @CarolynM You should read this book too. It‘s great! 3y

BarbaraBB @vivastory completely different from Stone Angel indeed! 3y

CarolynM Well, I've stacked it now🙂 There are so many books I want to read - I'm just going to have to live to be 120 (at least😂) 3y

vivastory @CarolynM I feel your pain 🤣📚📚 (edited) 3y

batsy I haven't started yet, but I hope to in the next day or so! And Laurence really knows how to drop some 🔥 lines. I found the same with Jest of God. 3y

merelybookish Preach! 🙌 3y

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merelybookish

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

Thanks for the tag @MoonWitch94 & welcome back!
1) Seeing my family for the first time in 2+ years. 🤗
2) September marks fall even if the weather doesn't always cooperate.
3) Tagged book with my fellow #Manawakans.
Consider yourself tagged if you want to play! 🙂
#thoughtfulthursday

MoonWitch94 Oh I‘m so glad you got to see your family! 🤩Thanks for playing 🌻📖🍁 3y

LeahBergen Ohhh, seeing your family! 😍😍 3y

Cathythoughts 2 years is a long time … thank god fir your meeting 👍🏻❤️ 3y

batsy I hope you've had a lovely time reuniting with family ❤️ 3y

merelybookish @LeahBergen @Cathythoughts @batsy Yes, grateful to be near them again. 2 years is a long time! 3y

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merelybookish

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

Found it! Past-me knew to pack it in a box where future-me would find it. 😅

@batsy @vivastory @BarbaraBB @LeahBergen #manawakans

vivastory I'm impressed! Did you winnow your book collection before moving? 3y

merelybookish @vivastory I'm also impressed. 😆 I winnowed a bit but probably not as much as I should have. I'm sure I'll wonder why I moved some books once I start trying to find space for them. 3y

batsy Nice! I had that edition of The Diviners which got lost during a move 😢 3y

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JazzFeathers 👏👏👏💪😊 3y

merelybookish @batsy Bummer. Although my copy is so yellowed and filmsy, I'm not sure it will survive the read. 3y

LeahBergen Look at that vintage Canadiana! 👏🏻👏🏻 3y

53 likes6 comments

merelybookish

The Fire-Dwellers | Margaret Laurence

Some beloved #Canlit today! I only have one book in Margaret Lawrence's Manawaka series but I read them all in my early twenties. And would love to re-read them!
📗The Stone Angel
📗A Jest of God
📗The Fire-dwellers
📗A Bird in the House
📗The Diviners
#20series20days @andrew65

Ruthiella I have The Stone Angel on my shelf. 😀 4y

Prairiegirl_reading The Stone Angel is an all time favourite of mine! ❤️ 4y

merelybookish @Ruthiella @Prairiegirl_reading I loved Stone Angel but expect it would be different to read at 45+ versus 20. 🙃 4y

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MsMelissa I honestly did not know this was a series 😬 I‘ve read The Stone Angel, The Diviners, and The Fire Dwellers so maybe I need to look out for the other two 🤔 4y

merelybookish @Book_Fiend_Melissa I think it is very loosely a series in that they all take place in the same imagined town. And maybe there are relationships between the characters (eg. sisters) but I don't think there is a progression. 4y

Prairiegirl_reading @merelybookish I first read it in high school and read it again in my 30s. Loved it probably even more. I think I should do the whole series. I haven‘t read A Jest of God or A Bird in the House. 4y

batsy I need to read them all! Only read The Diviners which I loved 💗 4y

merelybookish @batsy The Diviners was my favourite as well! 4y

merelybookish @Prairiegirl_reading I have vivid memories of all of them except A Bird in the House. But really feel I need to re-read all of them! A 2021 goal maybe. 4y

LeahBergen I recently bought The Diviners. 👍🏻 4y

Cathythoughts I think I‘ll get The Diviners as it was your favorite ... 👍🏻❤️ 4y

Andrew65 Sounds great. 4y

Prairiegirl_reading @merelybookish I‘m thinking the same! 4y

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