killingragediscussion

Killing Rage: Ending Racism | bell hooks

Question 5—hooks' writing has a lot of takeaways that can help others empathize with the oppression faced by those without racial or gender privilege. What points would you like to share with your friends and family to help educate others on this oppression and how we can overcome some of it?

#KillingRageDiscussion

BookishFeminist, TheNextBook, rachelm

ReadingEnvy How we can go about building the beloved community, MLK's term but in Bell Hooks' reimagining of it. Starts on page 263. I want to talk about building it. I already talked to three coworkers about the book this morning! 8y

Notafraidofwords Perhaps that rage can be a useful thing. Think about Toni Morrison. Her books depict rage in various ways & look how much they resonate with people. 8y

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LitsyFeministBookClub

Killing Rage: Ending Racism | bell hooks

Question 4—hooks is known for having a lot of radical, often controversial opinions. What did you find to be her most controversial theory in this book? Do you agree with it? Do you think she espouses radical theories to make a point or do you think she has another purpose?

#KillingRageDiscussion

BookishFeminist, TheNextBook, rachelm

BookishFeminist I forget whether she mentioned it in this book or not, but she often mentions a belief that men/the patriarchy inflict "terrorism" on women to retain control and power in society. Lots of folks find this controversial for obvious reasons, but I tend to agree with it to a certain extent. I think many men do this without realizing it or intending to, even if her wording is a bit extreme. I think she rightly uses extreme wording to get folks to... 8y

BookishFeminist ...consider others' intentions with respect to systemic racism and sexism. She is one of those theorists that likes to poke at the system with radical viewpoints, so I think she also does it to gain attention and spark discussion for feminist/racial justice causes because without the extreme wording, she wouldn't get folks to think. (I remember a headline 2 yrs ago of her calling Beyoncé a "terrorist" even though in context she didn't mean that.) (edited) 8y

Hooked_on_books I'm actually only halfway through it and was troubled by her comments about white feminists being racist. She backed this up with some good points and examples of this happening, but I was a little offended as a white feminist to be lumped into this category, though it does clearly exist. Blanket statements never work, since there's always individuals they don't apply to, and making that kind of statement could reject the very people/movement… 8y

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Hooked_on_books Which could further the cause she has taken up. This could backfire when those individuals get upset and stop paying attention. Her goal may simply be to rile people up, but I don't have a handle on that. 8y

Notafraidofwords @Hooked_on_books I understand what you're saying. Blanket statements can make anyone feel distance from the actual problem. However, I think in the ending she makes excellent points about everyone being involved in making the world a better place. 8y

BookishFeminist @Hooked_on_books do you think she's referring to "white feminism"? are you familiar with that term? It's slang to mean a particular kind of feminism that is exclusionary to POC, not intersectional. This is how I take those comments since that phrase has been around for a while. Having seen her speak, I think she generalizes to rile ppl up & make them think about what everyone does that could be problematic. Comes across stronger on paper than ... (edited) 8y

BookishFeminist @Hooked_on_books ...in person. I also think her theme of "killing rage" is important when she makes statements that feel generalizing. The rage is directed at everyone & systemically not at every individual person. I appreciate her anger & these statements bc black anger's been suppressed for so long. So often black folks, esp black women, are subject to tone policing (eg "Don't be so angry") so I think this is her way of pushing against that. (edited) 8y

ReadingEnvy A lot was hard to read but the most surprising idea for me was that of integration being part of white supremacy. I just hadn't ever thought of it that way. I can see it now but it still astounds me thinking of how so many people worked for integration as if it was the answer. It's clear it can't just be forcing everyone into a white dominated system. 8y

Hooked_on_books @BookishFeminist I do think she's referring to white feminism though that wasn't immediately clear, since she simply said "feminist." But I definitely agree that she's trying to shake people up and hopefully to get them thinking and re-examining things. My only fear is losing your audience before they've gotten there. It's a hard balance to show your (rightful) anger on a topic while maintaining your audience. 8y

BookishFeminist @Hooked_on_books Yea, agreed, though I also think she's gained a wider audience over the years by making inflammatory remarks—if she didn't she might likely just be another academic feminist that the world doesn't pay attention to, but instead she has a loyal following. If you haven't seen her speak I highly recommend it. She's a super friendly person & a super engaging/funny speaker! Might put some of her extreme ideas in perspective. 8y

BookishFeminist @ReadingEnvy Yea! I found that surprising too but it makes perfect sense. It's one of those things that white society doesn't think of in terms of racial justice. We've grown accustomed to thinking integration is the only answer, but it isn't in reality because it remains oppressive. I loved her perspective on this and thought she articulated it really well. (edited) 8y

Hooked_on_books @BookishFeminist That's a very good point--one can definitely gain attention with inflammatory remarks. If those are backed up afterward, it can be very effective. I'd love to hear her speak! I'll have to keep my ears open for such an opportunity. 8y

BookishFeminist @Hooked_on_books I posted some videos a few days ago! I recommend her scholar talks from the new school. I've been to a few of them and I've always enjoyed them. I love watching her rib people 😆 8y

Hooked_on_books I'll definitely have to check those out! She has my attention for sure. After this book, I intend to read more of her. 8y

mhillis @BookishFeminist Thank you for the links! I've been listening during my commute. 8y

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LitsyFeministBookClub

Killing Rage: Ending Racism | bell hooks

Question 3—Do you agree with hooks that internalized racism & colorism can be blamed on white supremacist society? Do you think it's as simple as that, or do you think other factors are involved? How does white supremacist patriarchy create internalized racism, misogyny, colorism, & misogynoir? How do you think these problems can be tackled?

#KillingRageDiscussion

BookishFeminist, TheNextBook, rachelm

ReadingEnvy Normalize normalize normalize. More people with natural hair in the media. Shows about black people (and other groups) unapologetically not being for white people. I think two new tv shows are on the right track, Atlanta and Insecure. And Beyoncé lately in particular. I guess I see power in people who a lot more people see can play that role. But that's a heavy cross. 8y

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LitsyFeministBookClub

Killing Rage: Ending Racism | bell hooks

Question #2: When discussing race and gender relations in America do you feel there is an inherent prejudice to keep the two issues separate? bell hooks mentions more than once her struggle with making feminism a race issue and vice versa. Do you think there is an inherent reason for that? What does it stem from?

#killingragediscussion

BookishFeminist, TheNextBook, rachelm

Notafraidofwords Maybe people need to simplify things in order to keep certain privileges or even to be able to cope. Actually, the ability to simplify life is an act of privilege within itself. 8y

Hooked_on_books I hadn't thought they were deliberately kept separate, but this book makes me think otherwise. Since I'm white, I think that was harder for me to see. I think they are separate though strongly related and overlapping issues which compound one another. 8y

TheNextBook @Notafraidofwords What's interesting in this instance are the two different types of privilege: white privilege over women of color and male privilege over women of color. It seems like people always need someone to step over to make progress. Really good point. All an example of privilege. 8y

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TheNextBook @Hooked_on_books I wasn't aware either of the deliberate separation until a few years ago. Once I started researching and things became glaringly obvious, I became really disheartened. We aren't equal until everyone is equal but yet and still history showed me that everyone doesn't feel that way 8y

Notafraidofwords @TheNextBook yes, exactly. And it was interesting reading this post election. All the people that tell me everything is going to be okay are not people whose life will be in danger. 8y

TheNextBook @Notafraidofwords Everytime someone says to me that everything is going to be okay it breaks my heart. 😔 Nothing is okay. Stop telling me it is. Open your eyes and see what's happening because people are rightfully afraid. Reading this post election was exactly what I needed. 8y

SoniaC I hadn't thought of it that way until reading the book but yes I very much agree that race and gender are kept as separate topics for the most part. 8y

Notafraidofwords @TheNextBook I agree! & when I bring up Germany and hitler I get looked like I'm crazy. Isn't the point of history to learn from it? 8y

Hooked_on_books @TheNextBook @Notafraidofwords I completely agree that things are definitely not ok! My favorite is: "nothing has even happened, what are you worried about?" Yikes, really?!? So much has happened and is happening everyday. We have the be thoughtful and vigilant and prepared, not just wait around sitting on our hands! 8y

Notafraidofwords @Hooked_on_books I know!!! The people he's appointing- that on its own is something! 8y

TheNextBook @SoniaC It's really eye opening seeing that a line has been drawn between the two issues and it's very rarely discussed together. 8y

TheNextBook @notafriadofwords #litsyconfession I used to hate World History and then I had the most amazing teacher that taught me so much and honestly, I've become an avid learner. Now, I tell people all the time that I read too much and I see way too many similarities! I know how this story ends and it's not good! It's terrifying! 8y

TheNextBook @Hooked_on_books Constant Vigilance! We all need to be constantly vigiliant! So many things are already changing. It's so discouraging. 8y

SoniaC @TheNextBook it's terrific that she sparked the conversation. I'm really glad we read this book. 8y

TheNextBook @SoniaC I am too. This was a great selection. Good job picking this one @BookishFeminist 8y

ReadingEnvy It's interesting to read this book from before the word "intersectionality" was so prevalent in academia (right now you can't escape it) ... I do think the broader an issue gets the harder it can be to drill down to solutions. And she acknowledges the overlooking of racism in the feminism conversation but doesn't much acknowledge who she is overlooking (LGBT hello, and other non-whites don't get page space until pg 200.) 8y

ReadingEnvy That said I think her niche is the intersection of race and gender so she does a great job pulling them together and showing why they should be considered together. 8y

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LitsyFeministBookClub

Killing Rage: Ending Racism | bell hooks

Question #1: Which major theme discussed in Killing Rage did you find the most surprising? bell hooks discussed many issues ranging from white supremacist patriarchy to internalized racism within the black community to feminism. Which one did you find the most surprising? Shocking?

#KillingRageDiscussion

BookishFeminist, TheNextBook, rachelm

SoniaC I was most surprised by the theme of racism within the early feminist movement. It definitely opened my eyes. 8y

TheNextBook @SoniaC That has always bothered me because that means the fight was never about all women, it was about all white women. You cant fight to be looked at equal when you can look at other women and not see them as equal to you. It's really disheartening. 8y

Notafraidofwords The race and class intersection was fascinating. I was surprised by the clarity in her writing ! 8y

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TheNextBook @Notafraidofwords hooks did an amazing job at expressing her stance on issues. You can tell she didnt want anything to be misinterpreted or misunderstood. 8y

Notafraidofwords @TheNextBook definitely. I just want to be clear about something. I was surprised by her clarity because race and class tend to be confusing when discussed together. I wasn't confused because I lacked confidence in hooks as a writer. Is just that I have read other writers that have attempted to have this discussion and I end up confused. 8y

TheNextBook @Notafraidofwords Oh I completely agreee. I felt like that about almost every topic. This was my first by hooks and I was blown away by how she was able to so easily explain most of these topics! I have a really hard time not letting my emotions get the best of me when I discuss some of these things so seeing her do it was amazing. It really helped seeing someone else voice so many of the things I feel or have felt. 8y

SoniaC @TheNextBook I agree completely. I do believe that feminism has shortened this gap since her writing but it still has a ways to go. 8y

TheNextBook @SoniaC It's been twenty one years since this book was released and I can't believe how much has not changed. Yes the gap has shortened but it is still so relevant. I'm so grateful that women like her stepped up to the plate to make action happen. 8y

mhillis Thank you for recommending this book. It was the right time to read it! Internalized racism is a topic that surprised me. 8y

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