NoplaceLikeHolmes

The Adventure of Wisteria Lodge | Arthur Conan Doyle

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes @Cuilin

Hello, Sherlockians! Great discussion so far today re: THE VALLEY OF FEAR. Hope to read more of your thoughts soon!

Now, on to the second-to-last set of stories: HIS LAST BOW. The discussion for “The Adventure of Wisteria Lodge“ will be next Saturday, 3/1, and will be led by @Cuilin. We've almost read the ENTIRE canon! 🤩🤩🤩

Link to analysis (spoiler alerts): https://shorturl.at/VhKV8

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CogsOfEncouragement Thank you for the post. My copy has The Cardboard Box as the first short story. I would have read the wrong one. As always, thanks for hosting this enjoyable buddy read. 3h

Librarybelle Thank you! 3h

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement “The Cardboard Box“ has been in different places in the canon. I think it depends on UK vs. USA editions, too. I believe we're going in the American order. YW! 🤩 43m

dabbe @Librarybelle YW! 🤩 43m

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dabbe

The Valley of Fear | Arthur Conan Doyle

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes @Cuilin

Thoughts, Sherlockians?

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Librarybelle Does Conan Doyle have an interest in the American West? It‘s considered very unlawful in this period of time. We know that Conan Doyle had a love/hate relationship with Holmes, so maybe this is his way of diverting to an interest of his. 🤷🏻‍♀️ 21h

eeclayton Why, oh, why, indeed. Poor McMurdo, I was hoping for a happier ending for him.
I was also annoyed by the insta-love between Ettie and McMurdo, especially with him openly joining (pretending to join) the Scowrers. Or might he have told her the truth in secret? 12h

dabbe @Librarybelle I did read an article that stated Doyle was fascinated with cults, gangs, the occult and such (need I say “fairies“?), and I love your point about the American West being unlawful and gang-like. I bet that appealed to him greatly, and he found a way to get his Sherlock in the mix. 5h

dabbe @eeclayton IKR? He goes through all kinds of stuff, lives to tell the tale, so to speak, and then dies in a half-hearted paragraph at the end. It's almost like Doyle got tired of writing the story and just wanted it done with.

Agree 💯 re: Ettie. I wonder if she was even necessary? She also got a quick write-off--just like Watson's Mary. Women are not treated well in Doyle's stories, are they? 5h

CatLass007 I understand that Mary died, but I can‘t remember even a sentence mentioning her death. Just all of a sudden, Watson was sharing rooms with Holmes again. 2h

37 likes5 comments

dabbe

The Valley of Fear | Arthur Conan Doyle

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes @Cuilin

Thoughts, Sherlockians?

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Librarybelle Moriarty is as close to a match for Holmes in regard to wit—according to Holmes‘ thoughts. It seemed odd that Holmes brought in Moriarty, so I thought I had missed something… 21h

eeclayton I was disappointed that Moriarty never got to be more than a bunch of throwaway comments in this book. I think it would've been better to omit him. 12h

dabbe @Librarybelle @eeclayton Plus the continuity errors that ensued! In “The Final Problem“, when we meet Moriarty for the first time, Watson has never heard of him. And since Moriarty dies and his organization is smashed at the end of that tale, THE VALLEY OF FEAR must be set before “The Final Problem“. Yet in this story, Watson already knows of the professor, and listens patiently to Sherlock's lengthy oral treatise about him. 5h

CatLass007 I thought the introduction of Moriarty could‘ve been left out without a bit of loss to the storytelling. In fact, the storytelling might have benefited if Moriarty had been left out. I also was wondering if the Pinkerton detective had arranged his own disappearance to make everyone believe he was dead. 2h

dabbe @CatLass007 Your idea seems founded more in reality since Douglas knew they'd be after him the rest of his life. Just having Moriarty have him killed out of the blue is too far-fetched for me. 35m

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dabbe

The Valley of Fear | Arthur Conan Doyle

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes @Cuilin

Thoughts, Sherlockians?

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Librarybelle It was a surprise to me, but I‘m terrible at guessing things, so maybe it wasn‘t as big as I thought it was! 😂 21h

eeclayton I was surprised, too 😁 12h

dabbe @Librarybelle @eeclayton I had read it years ago, totally forgot the surprise and was completely gobsmacked again! What does that say about my mental retentive powers? 😂 5h

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CogsOfEncouragement This was a first time read for me. I had other guesses that were wrong. Enjoyed the surprise. 3h

CatLass007 I was not surprised by the revelation of the identity of the Pinkerton detective. But I kind of blame that on Stephen Fry‘s introduction to the novel. 2h

dabbe @CogsOfEncouragement I did, too--the second time around! 🤩 42m

dabbe @CatLass007 I've heard how good Fry is. I should listen to one of the stories coming up. 🤩 41m

CatLass007 He is marvelous! now

34 likes8 comments

dabbe

The Valley of Fear | Arthur Conan Doyle

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes @Cuilin

Thoughts, Sherlockians?

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Librarybelle Definitely a work of its times and is a window to the real thoughts of society at that time. Sad. 21h

Cuilin Surprising that Doyle was furthering the negative stereotyping at the time as both his parents were of Irish Catholic descent. I think his mother was Irish. Doyle is a name from County Wicklow in Ireland. During this time, of course there were many rebellions against British rule in Ireland so is it an attempt to distance himself. 9h

dabbe @Librarybelle @Cuilin Both Doyle's parents were of Irish Catholic descent. He's considered British but was born in Scotland. I've tried to find what he saw himself mostly as, and the results are murky. He did portray some of the Irish sympathetically, but it's hard to ignore the stereotypes. Is it also his views towards “American“ Irish or America in general? 5h

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Librarybelle Good thought, @dabbe …does it have something to do with “American?” 5h

CatLass007 The Freemasons, the organization on which the Free Men is based, are anti-Catholic. Perhaps that is why Doyle presents such a negative view of the Irish. The religion of the members of the Free Men is never mentioned, but perhaps they are Protestants. I know a little about the Masons because my Mom was Catholic and my Dad was Protestant and a Mason, which obviously wasn‘t all that important to him because they had 57 happy years of marriage. 2h

dabbe @CatLass007 I wonder is The Scowrers were Irish Protestant instead of Catholic. And interesting point re: Doyle's views since he was raised as an Irish Catholic. Perhaps that could be why he portrayed this group as being anti-Catholic, though I don't remember reading much evidence of religion in this book. 36m

CatLass007 I don‘t think religion is mentioned at all in this book. But he certainly portrayed the Irish Scowrers negatively. I suspect it‘s something that readers of that era would have known about. Plus, he might not have been free to express any religious views openly. now

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dabbe

The Valley of Fear | Arthur Conan Doyle

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes @Cuilin

Thoughts, Sherlockians?

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Librarybelle I could see part two as a standalone, not necessarily associated with Holmes. If someone handed me part two and gave me no other info, I‘d think it was a good mystery—a little long winded in the middle, but again the twist made it a surprise at the end. 21h

eeclayton @Librarybelle I agree. Here, I would've been much happier with a shorter backstory, especially since the mystery in part 1 was completely solved. 12h

dabbe @Librarybelle @eeclayton 🎯! If given Part 2 separately, I would have enjoyed it without knowing any reference to Holmes or Watson. I would not have considered it “one of the finest“ detective stories ever written, but I would have liked it. Pair it next to SH in Part 1, though, and it's a whole different story! 5h

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dabbe

The Valley of Fear | Arthur Conan Doyle

#NoPlaceLikeHolmes @Cuilin
#TheValleyOfFear

Part 2 in the last SH novel in the canon! A lot like his 1st one A STUDY IN SCARLET, perhaps? 🧐

Thoughts, Sherlockians?

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Librarybelle It does resemble The Study in Scarlet with the backstory related to the American West. As I said in my review, I‘m not the biggest fan of Conan Doyle removing the story from the land of Holmes. I guess I like purely Holmes‘ story, even though this one did have a big twist. 21h

eeclayton I enjoyed part 1 way more than part 2. 12h

Cuilin @eeclayton same. 9h

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dabbe @Librarybelle @eeclayton @Cuilin I think most of us thought the same in A STUDY IN SCARLET. Doyle then writes two fabulous novels, A SIGN OF FOUR and (IMHO) his magnum opus THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES, and then he reverts back to the same formula as his first novel, which was by far not his best. I just don't know why he did it again! 5h

CatLass007 He probably was tired of writing about Sherlock Holmes. He already killed him off once. So he just follows the formula. It‘s the formula that got him started. The triangle and circle are reminiscent of Masonic symbols. I guess the introduction by Stephen Fry spoiled thanks for me in a certain way because I knew that the Free Men were based on the Freemasons. I also knew that there was going to be some involvement from the Pinkertons or a (cont)⬇️ 2h

CatLass007 similar fictional agency. Did you know that many of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons? The circle and the triangle with the all-seeing eye in the center appears on the dollar bill. 2h

dabbe @CatLass007 I did! I didn't look at the dollar bill, though. Thanks for the info on that! And yet Doyle still wrote quite a few short stories after this one. Money and fame count, too, I guess. 🤣 39m

CatLass007 £££ now

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Librarybelle

The Valley of Fear | Arthur Conan Doyle

so-so

I enjoyed the first half of this short novel; the second half was not so much. I previously struggled the last time with Conan Doyle‘s telling of past events in America, and this one left me feeling similarly. I guess I‘m all about Holmes‘s deductions and not reading about the lawless American West through the eyes of Conan Doyle!

So-so for me, but this checks off #LetterV #LitsyAToZ and #InThePublicDomain #52BookClub25 ! #NoPlaceLikeHolmes

Cuilin, Texreader, dabbe

dabbe Even though the 2nd half was also a detective story with a Pinkerton detective, he wasn't Sherlock, was he? Can't wait for our discussion! 🤩 2d

65 likes1 comment

Read4life

The Valley of Fear | Arthur Conan Doyle

pick

I‘m ready for the #NoPlaceLikeHolmes discussion on 2/22!!

Cuilin, dabbe

dabbe Woohoo! So am I! 🤩 3d

LoverOfLearning Love Sherlock stories! 3d

59 likes2 comments

Daisey

Tale of Genji | Shikibu Murasaki

These are my current long reads, and I‘m enjoying each of them in their own way.

I got a lot from my previous read of #Genji, so I thought I would reread for the #Reading1001 yearlong read this year by listening to the Washburn translation. It‘s interesting how I‘ve forgotten so many details, but then hear sections that immediately seem so familiar.

#CurrentlyReading #NaturaLitsy #WhatTheDickens #NoPlaceLikeHolmes #1001books #audiobook

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