HerculePoirot

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

It‘s time for our first #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers discussion! I posted 9 questions as spoilers; they can be found on my feed, the book‘s feed, or by searching the group‘s hashtags. Feel free to answer whenever!

February‘s book is The Secret Adversary, which is the first Tommy and Tuppence book. More details will be posted tomorrow!

janeycanuck, Aims42, MallenNC, kspenmoll, BarbaraJean, JenlovesJT47, Lizpixie, MariaW, elkeOriginal, AnneCecilie, Gissy, mrp27, Suet624, Cailey_Mac, Deblovestoread, ferskner, Marmie7, MaleficentBookDragon, majkia, Bookwormjillk, StayCurious, Laughterhp, Sace, RainyDayReading, Skygoddess1, PathfinderNicole, dabbe, tdrosebud, TheAromaofBooks, Tineke, PageShifter, willaful, AnishaInkspill

Sace Thanks for tagging. I‘ve made a note in my reading journal for May-July, but enjoy lurking until then. 😁 4d

Aims42 I‘m excited for the February read! This will be my first Tommy and Tuppence book 😁 4d

Larkken I always forget about Tommy and Tuppence! Looking forward to the read. 4d

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Librarybelle @Larkken Great! Would you like me to add you to the tag list? 4d

Librarybelle Wonderful, @Aims42 ! 😁 4d

Librarybelle @Sace Lurk away! 4d

Larkken @Librarybelle ha. Forgot I was only lurking. Sure! 4d

Librarybelle No worries, @Larkken ! You‘re also welcome to lurk. 😁 4d

Cailey_Mac Yay a list🫶🏼 4d

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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9. In Lucy Worsley's 3-part documentary, she interviews a professor about Christie's racist and anti-Semitic epithets in her novels (the interview is wonderful).

As we progress in the novels, we'll notice this (there were a couple of instances in my addition of this novel that stood out to me).

But yet, we love Christie, and her works have endured for over 100 years. Why do you think this is the case? #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

Aims42 This is another great question!! I can‘t wait to see what other readers think. I have to let this marinate 🤔 4d

Bookwormjillk I‘m not sure how to answer that. I‘ll have to find that documentary. Worsley‘s book about Christie is really good too. Maybe I‘ll have a chance to re-read it before next month‘s discussion and then I can answer more questions 😂 4d

dabbe To address the racist/anti-Sematic slurs in her novels and why these novels still endure is a hard question for me. Perhaps at the heart of many of Christie's novels is a deep understanding of human nature and the frequent exploration of themes of greed, jealousy, betrayal, and the darker sides of human behavior. These themes transcend cultural and temporal boundaries, making her stories relevant to successive generations of readers. 4d

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MallenNC I agree that this is a question to wrestle with. In someways I think readers accept those parts of the books as reflective of the time they were written and that it‘s excused because the stories are so good. I read Lucy‘s book but I think I need to rewatch that part of the documentary. 4d

MariaW I‘ve read Worsley‘s book as well, but did not watch the documentary. I definitely have to find it. Again, I agree with @dabbe. And I am adding another point: Christie‘s novels have become such huge part of our modern day pop culture, they are considered as classics due to all the different famous adaptions. Nowadays we have more authors and books, there is an overflow of information. This was not the case yet at the beginning of the last century. (edited) 4d

MariaW I am not sure there will be found classics of our time in a hundred years or so. (edited) 4d

mrp27 It‘s definitely something I wrestle with, with many authors, artists etc. I don‘t know that there will ever be a clear cut answer of how to deal with this. We just learn and do better, be better. 2d

Librarybelle I think the particular segment is in episode 3, and I keep searching for a clip online—if I find it, I‘ll post. It‘s a question I wrestle with, and I think as modern day readers we see these instances in the books as flawed and degrading ( @dabbe in your response to the first question, you alluded to the troubling phrases). I‘ve yet to read Worsley‘s book, so I cannot speak to that personally. There may be no right way to respond to this. ⬇️⬇️⬇️ 5h

Librarybelle ⬆️⬆️⬆️ I think, though, it is good to acknowledge that there are flaws. Incidentally, in 2023 Christie‘s works were one of the classics changed to remove the derogatory and racist comments by Harper publishing. I personally love Christie for her plotlines and the twists. She‘s one of my favorite authors. Somewhat related to this, I attended a webinar last night that the presenter was discussing myths in how history is presented…⬇️⬇️⬇️ 5h

Librarybelle ⬆️⬆️⬆️ …and bringing the full truth to light. In this particular instance, a town in Massachusetts that has citizens fighting to remove inappropriate signs regarding the Indigenous community and properly recognizing the contributions of the non-WASP citizens. Someone called him out on his “impartial view” and his response was that it is not a condemnation of how people portrayed history in the past. Rather, it‘s up to us today to acknowledge…⬇️⬇️ 5h

Librarybelle ⬆️⬆️⬆️…that portrayal as flawed and add more to the story. As he said, people 50 years from now may find fault with our interpretation of history and find a better way to convey how everyone in the community contributed to the overall town story. It‘s hard to explain on a post, but I found that seemed to fit well with this. We see these phrases, know they are bad, and it‘s a teachable moment for us to personally do better. @Aims42 @Bookwormjillk 5h

Librarybelle ⬆️⬆️⬆️ @MallenNC @MariaW @mrp27 5h

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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8. According to Brewer‘s Dictionary of Phrase & Fable, a red herring is “a hint or statement in the early part of the story to put the reader on the wrong scent” (derived from the practice of dragging a smelly red herring across a path to confuse hunting dogs). How many red herrings can you find in this mystery? ~from Penguin Random House Reading Group Guide #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

dabbe 1. John Cavendish seemed to be highly suspect--until we find out that his suspicious behavior was mostly due to his anxiety about his financial situation.
2. There are letters that appear to suggest a romantic relationship between Evelyn and Dr. Bauerstein, which gives the impression that there might be a love triangle and a motive for murder, but this too is misleading and part of the complex relations to mask the real culprits. 4d

MariaW @dabbe Letters between Evie and Dr Bauerstein? I completely missed that. 🙈 Got definitely not thrown off by this one. 😂😂😂 The were so many: Inglethorp habing the affair instead of John. Lawrence insisting on the murder being a natural death, … 4d

MaleficentBookDragon The Doctor is the biggest one. The whole farmer‘s wife affair is another. I never saw where it was implied that it was John having the affair. That seemed to be pulled out of the blue at the end. Cynthia working at the pharmacy made her a suspect and red herring for me. 4d

mrp27 Evelyn hatred was a big red herring. One does protest too much. 2d

Librarybelle I agree about Cynthia, @MaleficentBookDragon . The doctor was another one, and those letters! @dabbe @MariaW @mrp27 6h

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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7. According to the critic Anthony Lejeune, “The real secret of Agatha Christie . . . lies not in the carpentering of her plots. . .but in . . . [her] ability to buttonhole a reader, to make, as Raymond Chandler put it, ‘each page throw the hook for the next.‘ ” How does Christie build suspense in this novel? Were you surprised when the murderer was revealed? ~from Penguin Random House Reading Group Guide #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

Bookwormjillk I thought I knew who did it, and was thrown off when we learned who the real murderer was. 4d

dabbe The problem I find with detective novels sometimes is that in order for them to supply the element of fair play for the reader, we have to be given all of the clues during the story. When everything is explained to us at the end, we literally feel stupid (a la Watson) and maybe even jaded that we, in fact, weren't given all the clues until the end. I saw that in this book and quite a few others (talking to you, Conan Doyle!) 4d

MariaW I agree with @dabbe. After most of Christie‘s nocels I felt like „How was is supposed to know?“. She gives the glues most of the times, but the reader is almost unable to grasp them, at least not during the first reading. For me it is more about reading about the different relationships, encounters and the changes in ther characters that make the books interesting. I already gave up guessing the murder. 🙈 (edited) 4d

MaleficentBookDragon I know that we are supposed to have all the clues, Poirot even told Hastings a few times that he knew everything that Poirot did. But Hastings (meaning us) cannot piece them together. I suppose that is to show us how agile and different Poirot‘s mind is, but I do sometimes wish we could see the book from Poirot‘s viewpoint. I‘d love to see how he made the mental leaps he (Christie) made to get to the end of the mystery. 4d

Librarybelle Oh yes, I‘d love to see it from Poirot‘s perspective, @MaleficentBookDragon ! I‘m terrible at finding clues to begin with in a story—hence why it took me 4 times to find some of the clues Poirot mentions—but like @dabbe said, sometimes we the reader just don‘t have everything. @Bookwormjillk @MariaW 6h

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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6. What role do outsiders play in The Mysterious Affair at Styles? Consider, in particular, the characters of Alfred Inglethorp, Dr. Bauerstein, and Hercule Poirot. ~from Penguin Random House Reading Group Guide #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

dabbe Alfred fits the “nobody“ role who marries the rich ol' lady. Poirot is the detective who is “outside“ the realm of the regular police force--you have to have that in a detective novel, I think. Not sure about Dr. B. 4d

MallenNC I like the double meaning of outsider for Poirot. He‘s Belgian so he‘s outside of this British culture but that status doesn‘t stop him from seeing everyone as they really are. And he‘s outside of the case as a civilian (edited) 4d

MariaW There are more outsiders somehow: Hastings has been to Styles for years, Emily is the stepmother of the boys, Evie, Mary and Cynthia as well. It seems like a lot of outsiders were thrown into a salad bowl and mixed together. Dr Bauerstein is the red herring Agatha Christie needed to make the story more interesting. Poirot and Inglethorp are the antagonists - with Poirot circling Inglethorp like a cat lying in wait. 4d

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MaleficentBookDragon I agree with @MariaW that there were more outsiders than insiders. Johnathon & Lawrence were the only true family. Their stepmother was never close to them emotionally. Mary just came to Styles to escape her boring life. Cynthia was the poor relation with no prospects. Emily infiltrated Styles with an evil plan. Mr. Inglethorpe, the doctor, the policemen, the farmer‘s wife; they were all a bit of window dressing to keep us confused. 4d

mrp27 Felt like they were all outsiders in one way or another, even John and Lawerence who were only step sons. 2d

Librarybelle I like the idea that they were all outsiders to a degree, and good point @MallenNC that there is a double meaning to “outsider” with Poirot. And yes, @dabbe , Alfred fits that “nobody” role by marrying the matriarch. @MariaW @MaleficentBookDragon @mrp27 6h

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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5. How would you describe the Edwardian social hierarchy that Christie establishes in the novel? Who is on the top of the ladder, and who is on the bottom? Does anyone break the rules of this well-defined social order? ~from Penguin Random House Reading Group Guide #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

dabbe It seemed to me that the Edwardian society was at the end of its run in the novel--mostly evident by Emily marrying basically a nobody. The idea of a remote country house also seemed to me to be an end-of-an-era feeling. 4d

MariaW Changes can be seen at the horizon for sure. Less personnel around, the ladies have to work… only the men still seem to do nothing (except being in the war). That Inglethorpe was penniless made the shock for the family even more terrible. 4d

MaleficentBookDragon It was interesting to see how there was a wistful nostalgia about the old ways from both Mrs. Inglethorpe (to be expected of the “lady of the house”) but also by a few of the servants like Dorcus. Fear of change perhaps? 4d

Librarybelle I like that description, @MaleficentBookDragon , “wistful nostalgia.” It‘s definitely the end of the era. I love reading about the grand houses of England, and it‘s at this time that families can no longer afford these homes. So many economic reforms and, with heavy casualties from the war and a patriarchal society, no one to carry on the upkeep. @dabbe @MariaW 6h

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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4. According to Agatha Christie, when she wrote The Mysterious Affair at Styles she saw it as “a story with a moral; in fact it was the old Everyman Morality Tale, the hunting down of Evil and the triumph of Good...” How is this reflected in the characters in the novel? Did you find them realistic, or did you think they were stereotypical? ~based on Penguin Random House Reading Group Guide #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

dabbe I found them as realistic as they could be--being all rich and living in a luxurious mansion--which for the “everyman“ is a fantasy. The fact that the crime involved the gain of material wealth definitely is realistic since a lot of criminality is for that very reason. 4d

MallenNC I agree @dabbe that money is the motive in a lot of crime is the realistic part of this story— just watch a Dateline episode to see that. 4d

MariaW I thought the notion of a younger man marrying an older woman for the money seemed very stereotypical even though it came out very late in the novel. Especially how the whole family reacted the move of their stepmother. I think for the working class it might have have satisfactory to see the upper class cutting their throats over their inheritance. 4d

mrp27 All the characters felt realistic as did the murder. 2d

Librarybelle Completely agree with all of you! And yes, @MallenNC —it‘s like a Dateline episode! @dabbe @MariaW @mrp27 6h

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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3. The mystery is told through the eyes of Captain Hastings; we will also meet him in other Poirot novels. What do you think of Hastings? Think of the working relationship between Hastings and Poirot and Watson and Holmes (if you're familiar with the Sherlock Holmes stories). How are working relationships similar? Different? #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

Aims42 I love the dynamic between Hastings and Poirot. I feel like as a reader we need Hastings to be the bridge between Poirot‘s thinking and methodology and what the reader knows. Hastings is like the translator, and I love how salty he gets when Poirot is like, “No, that is not what I mean” 😆 4d

dabbe Hastings and Poirot have that similar way of bantering with each other that I love. You know they both love each other, but they can get quite saucy with one another, too. 4d

MallenNC I agree that it‘s nice to have a narrator like Hastings to take us through the story. I also like how at different points he thinks he‘s got it all figured out. I think readers probably relate to him in that way. 4d

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MariaW I thought Hastings seemed kind of lost in this first one. Of course he had to be that way after being in the war. He seemed very restless while being around attractive women. The dynamic @aims42 mentioned definitely helps both to improve themselves and it makes it even more interesting because there are more sidetracks. The beginning was very similar Sherlock‘s Hound of the Baskervilles with the narrator explaing why he writes everything down. (edited) 4d

MariaW I did not read many of the Sherlock Homes novels yet, I only know a lot movie adaptions, but to me it seems like Poirot and Hastings do have more a friendship whilst Holmes‘ and Watson‘s relationship is more of the professional sort. This may due to the fact that those stories have been written almost 40 years earlier. Maybe Poirot seems „warmer“ because he is a foreigner? (edited) 4d

MaleficentBookDragon I think there is genuine affection between Hastings and Poirot, but like in my last comment, Hastings sometimes looks down on Poirot because of his quirks and age even though he knows how intelligent Poirot is and what an outstanding detective career Poirot had. Hastings could be a little arrogant and Poirot puts him in his place, do you speak, but not in a mean way. 4d

mrp27 I had no idea of Hastings character as a partner to Poirot. But I agree he is the bridge for the reader. I liked how he would get so annoyed with Poirot because I would get annoyed with him too. 2d

Librarybelle I agree with you @MariaW —Hastings and Poirot are more a friendship, and Holmes and Watson are more professional. There is a warmness to Poirot that is not quite evident in Holmes. As for Hastings, yes @MaleficentBookDragon , I noticed too the comments he makes about Poirot, which are not exactly friendly. Hastings does serve as a good bridge between Poirot and the reader. @Aims42 @dabbe @MallenNC @mrp27 6h

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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2. We meet Hercule Poirot for the first time in this novel. What are your impressions of him? He appears in over thirty novels and fifty short stories by Christie (and later in the continuation of stories by Sophie Hannah). What makes him such an appealing and enduring character? ~based on Penguin Random House Reading Group Guide #AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

Aims42 This is a GREAT question!! I love the balance between “Mr Know It All” and his silliness (those pesky little grey cells, Mon Ami) 4d

dabbe I adore him and his peculiar habits. It did get a wee bit annoying, though, when he would never tell Hastings ANYTHING, which meant we didn't know anything either--until the end of course. 4d

MallenNC What I like about Poirot is how he notices all the little details. I am not the best at that, even when reading. 4d

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MariaW I like his little annoying habits because we all do have those. And in the end his habit of arranging things symmetrically helped to solve the case. @dabbe I was annoyed as well sometimes, but then I made me remember that Hastings wanted to become a detective and Poirot somehow teaches him. (edited) 4d

dabbe @MariaW Good point! 🤩 4d

MaleficentBookDragon I love how quirky he is, yet seems genuinely kind and empathetic. And while he always seemed to be amused by Hastings and his wild (dumb) theories, he never seems to be truly laughing at him in a mean or condescending way. At least not to me. On the other hand, there were moments when Hastings was definitely looking down on Poirot because of his quirks or his age; but he always gets proven wrong by Poirot and then feels guilty for his thoughts. 4d

TheAromaofBooks Poirot loves people, and I think that is a huge part of what makes him an enjoyable protagonist. So many modern detective stories are about someone jaded by life and convinced that humanity sucks. But Poirot is always trying to bring a couple together, or to help someone regain their hope, all on the side whilst solving the mystery! 3d

mrp27 He‘s certainly a funny little man. But I like the balance of wits and quirks. 2d

Librarybelle I love that perspective, @TheAromaofBooks ! I never thought of his encouragements, but you‘re right. I think a lot of his popularity has to be the TV adaptations starring David Suchet—Suchet is Poirot! @Aims42 @dabbe @MallenNC @MariaW @MaleficentBookDragon @mrp27 6h

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Librarybelle

The Mysterious Affair at Styles (Poirot) | Agatha Christie

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1. What did you think of the book? Was this your first time reading the book?

A few facts:

*Published in 1920
*First Hercule Poirot novel
*Poirot was inspired by the Belgian refugees from WWI living in Torquay at the time Christie wrote this
*Christie and her first husband named their home Styles after this novel

#AgathaChristieClubR3 #ChristiesCapers

Aims42 So, I discovered around page 50 that I had already read this book 😂 But it‘s been a few years since I did so I didn‘t remember much. I think I actually liked it more reading it this time, I definitely didn‘t remember the amazing banter between Hastings and Poirot 🤣 4d

dabbe I enjoyed this first introduction to the infamous Belgian detective, Hercule Poirot, even with some prejudices that made me majorly wince (the n-word is used once, and any Jewish person is referred to as the Jew 😳). The tying up of loose ends was quite the humdinger, too, and I had to read it twice to make sure I understood all of the red herrings and the actual clues that led the incomparable Poirot to solve the crime. 4d

Bookwormjillk Definitely dated, but wow Christie really finds her voice right away. I wouldn‘t be able to tell that was her first book if we weren‘t reading them in order. 4d

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MallenNC This was my second time reading this one but I only had a vague memory of the story. Whenever I read Christie I always think I‘m going to figure it out and I still didn‘t. 4d

MariaW I‘ve listened to a shortened audiobook in German some time ago, listened then the current audible radio play two weeks ago and finally read the ebook. I definitely have to say I prefer it in its original language. And I agree with @Bookwormjillk, if I hadn‘t known better I couldn‘t have said it was Christie‘s first crime fiction. (edited) 4d

Deblovestoread I honestly don‘t remember if I‘ve read this. I did have a bit of a Christie phase when I was young. It is hard to read these older novels with the cringy racism but it was a solid mystery and fine introduction to Poirot. 4d

MaleficentBookDragon This was my second time reading this book. I remembered most of what happened as so I did pick up in a few clues, but not as many as I thought I should. 4d

MaleficentBookDragon @Deblovestoread I know. She‘s a bit sexist as well, which still always surprises me when I read her books. 4d

mrp27 Not my first Christie nor my first Poirot but I did enjoy reading this one for the first time. 2d

Librarybelle This was my fourth time reading this one, and while it‘s not as polished as her later books, you can tell she‘s got a good formula going. Like some said, it would be hard to tell this was her first crime novel. I finally caught some of the clues in the story, but not all—maybe 4 more readings will get me there! 😂 @Aims42 @dabbe @Bookwormjillk @MallenNC @MariaW @Deblovestoread @MaleficentBookDragon @mrp27 6h

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