Undine | Litsy

julieclair

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

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This tale totally drew me in. It was mesmerizing, but so sad.
#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead @BarbaraJean

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BarbaraJean

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

LMM first mentions Undine in her journals on October 24, 1899, when Nate brings her a copy—she reads it in school, under her desk, and calls it “delicious.” The story is often referenced as one of LMM‘s favorites.
What do you notice in Undine that might have appealed to LMM?

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

lauraisntwilder It has a piety to it that I wasn't expecting. I can see how that would've appealed to LMM, since she also liked Little Women and church was so important in her life. 6mo

BarbaraJean @lauraisntwilder I also think she must have been drawn to the nature descriptions! There were some very lush descriptions of the lake and the location of the fisherman's cottage, as well as the forest and the storms. I could see her reveling in those as well as the emotional drama of the story. 6mo

TheAromaofBooks I think the nature connections are definitely a good point @BarbaraJean !! There is also a sort of melodramatic romance to the whole thing that feels a little over-the-top but I can see her getting into, especially when she's young - I think I would have also enjoyed this story more if I read it the first time as an early teen haha It has a sad ending, and it made me think of Anne's Story Club and how that younger age hasn't really experienced ⬇ 6mo

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TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) real grief or trouble, so they tend to enjoy reveling in the melodrama. The whole ending scene I kept remembering Anne's story about the minister's wife who buried children all over the country and wept at their graves haha I actually felt like Kilmeny of the Orchard has definite Undine vibes. (And wasn't Kilmeny's original name Una in the short story she first wrote?) And despite the religious tone throughout, there is also a lot of ⬇ 6mo

TheAromaofBooks (cont'd) underlying sensuousness to the story. The “good“ beautiful woman vs the “bad“ beautiful woman, the fact that Undine's husband is unfaithful to her and attracted to the forbidden Bertalda, the way both women lose at the end - I can see all of that appealing to LMM, who was very passionate and full of life. @lauraisntwilder 6mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Oh, definitely, I can see the melodrama and romance appealing to a young Maud! Anne's Story Club would definitely have wept over Undine. Maybe it would have been an appropriate one to act out, given how things went with acting out Elaine...😂 I looked it up, and you're right about Kilmeny. Her first version was called “Una of the Garden.“ Kilmeny definitely has similar vibes of jealousy and melodrama! Less water, though. 😂 6mo

julieclair Great thoughts here. And… I love the image of LMM reading Undine under her desk at school! 5mo

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BarbaraJean

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

What common fairy tale tropes did you notice in Undine?
What did you like (or dislike) about how those fairy tale tropes played out in this story?

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

TheAromaofBooks Well, he literally is a knight riding up on a white charger 😂 You also have the changeling aspect, the poor but noble parents, and then the sneaky bad woman stealing away the perfect woman's man. Probably others that aren't coming to mind. They were... fine, I guess? Those tropes are what they are. They didn't really wow me here, but I didn't feel like they were any more ridiculous here than they are in other similar stories haha 6mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks Hahaha... well, yes there is that white knight!! I felt like there were SO many fairy tale elements! Add in fae-influenced weather, good fae who hold off the bad fae, and then with Bertalda: the unknown parentage revealed! That felt like a reversal, with the rich girl revealed to have come from humble parentage instead of vice versa. I thought initially that with Undine being a “good“ water spirit holding off her evil uncle ⬇ 6mo

BarbaraJean (Cont'd) ...and how she is given a soul when she marries (still ugh about that), that the author might do more interesting things with good vs. evil here. But as you said, it was all fairly usual for a fairy tale. Except the knight on his white charger turns out to be unfaithful and kind of a jerk. Well, maybe that's not outside the usual fairy tale tropes, either, now that I think about it!! 6mo

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TheAromaofBooks The hero turning into the anti-hero was an intriguing aspect of the story, I thought. He's so romantic and handsome when he first shows up, seems so devoted to Undine and delighted to marry her, but then falls away and betrays her time and again.

Personally, I would have given Bertalda the boot pretty fast - and probably sent Mr. White Knight right out the door after her 😂 6mo

julieclair Huldbrand is definitely not a Disney prince, lol! And I agree with @TheAromaofBooks about Bertalda. Why in the world did Undine allow her to live with them? 5mo

BarbaraJean @julieclair “Not a Disney prince“— 😂 I wonder what Disney would do with an Undine adaptation?! Huldbrand is just so awful. I wonder if Undine's willingness to allow Bertalda to live with them was a narrative device to demonstrate her kindness, innocence, and goodness? I'm with @TheAromaofBooks, though—Bertalda would've been out the door pretty fast if it were me! 5mo

julieclair Disney would turn it into The Little Mermaid! 🧜‍♀️😆🤭 And… good thought about the reason why Undine allowed Bertalda to stay. 5mo

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BarbaraJean

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

Hans Christian Andersen didn‘t like how de la Motte Fouqué‘s story made “the mermaid‘s acquiring of an immortal soul to depend upon… the love of a human being. I‘m sure that‘s wrong! It would depend rather much on chance, wouldn‘t it?”

How did you respond to this aspect of the folklore—that Undine‘s receiving a soul is dependent upon her marriage? What did you think of the male & female roles in the story?

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent

rubyslippersreads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

lauraisntwilder It feels a little like "Beauty and the Beast" in that way, with marriage being a marker of having been deemed worthy of love. I'm not sure I like that aspect, but I did like the character of Undine more after she got a soul. 6mo

BarbaraJean @lauraisntwilder I like that connection to Beauty and the Beast! Both characters are given their humanity in a way, once they have been seen as worthy of love. And both feel problematic. I feel similarly to Andersen but probably for different reasons. It bothers me to have the woman's soul be dependent upon approval/bestowal of worth by a man. Andersen has religious issues with it, and I have both spiritual and feminist issues with it! 6mo

BarbaraJean @lauraisntwilder I also thought it was interesting that Undine seems to have far more power before she has a soul. She's so dependent upon Huldbrand after that--as well as vulnerable to Kuhleborn. She has a measure of control over Kuhleborn before her marriage, but far less so afterwards. And then Huldbrand proves to be completely unworthy of her trust and dependence. 6mo

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TheAromaofBooks I didn't care for the aspect of another person (husband or anyone) having the power to grant her a soul. Like Anderson, I have some religious issues with that one haha Plus she didn't really do anything to “deserve“ it anyway - just looked pretty, basically. It seemed like a strange premise. @lauraisntwilder 6mo

lauraisntwilder I agree, it's totally creepy. So is Beauty and the Beast, really. @TheAromaofBooks 6mo

julieclair It didn‘t bother me as I was listening, because I considered it a Fairy Tale. And it‘s 200 years old, when attitudes were different. However, if I was reading it with my grandkids, I would definitely have a conversation with them, about both the religious aspect and the feminist aspect. 5mo

BarbaraJean @julieclair Yes, a lot of my issues emerged as I was thinking back on the story! It's a lot easier for me to dismiss or overlook the male/female roles because they are such a product of the time and of the genre. But the soul idea really bothered me the more I thought about it! I like the idea of contextualizing the story and those problematic aspects if you were reading it with your grandkids. 5mo

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BarbaraJean

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

#KindredSpiritsBuddyRead #LMMAdjacent
🧜‍♀️Undine was first published in German in 1811—the same year as Sense & Sensibility, a year before the Brothers Grimm fairy tales
🧜‍♀️The first English translation was by George Soane (1818)
🧜‍♀️Undine influenced Hans Christian Andersen‘s The Little Mermaid (1837)
🧜‍♀️The Courtney translation (1909) is famous for its illustrations by Arthur Rackham

What translation/version did you read (if you know)?⤵️

rubyslippersreads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

BarbaraJean Here‘s a digital version with the Arthur Rackham illustrations:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Undine_(1909)

Some resources on various versions of the text:
https://books.openedition.org/obp/607?lang=en
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Undine (edited) 6mo

slategreyskies This reminds me of the movie Ondine with Colin Farrell. I wonder if it was based on this story. 6mo

BarbaraJean @slategreyskies It‘s been years since I watched that movie, but I‘m sure there was some influence there! There are lots of Undine stories out there and I think this one was the first one that went on to influence lots of others. 6mo

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BarbaraJean As far as I can tell, the version I read was the anonymous translation from 1845. I checked it out on Hoopla, and it has introductory essays by George MacDonald and Lafcadio Hearn. It's copyrighted 2020 by Read & Co. Books. I still need to skim through the “Told to the Children“ version from Project Gutenberg I checked out on Libby. It's mentioned in the openedition.org link I posted above as one of several re-tellings for children. 6mo

lauraisntwilder I switched between the Courtney translation on Hoopla, with the (gorgeous!) Rackham illustrations (side note, how do I not own any books with Rackham illustrations when I've loved him for years?!) and the Bunnett translation on LibroVox. 6mo

TheAromaofBooks I read the Bunnett translation (1867 so it's a possibility for the one LMM would have read). One side note that I enjoyed was that Bunnett took the time to use “thee“ and “thou“ vs “you“ in dialogue, emphasizing how important informal vs formal usage would be in the original language. Circling back to Anderson's Little Mermaid, I think it is very interesting what aspects of this story he decided to keep vs change. @lauraisntwilder 6mo

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks As I was reading, I was surprised at how few parallels there were between this & The Little Mermaid. Then I realized there are a LOT--but they're handled very differently. Undine doesn't need help to appear human & she's able to marry her “prince.“ But Huldbrand's heart is still stolen away by the rival & there's an evil water spirit seeking to thwart Undine. Both have a tragic ending, but the heroine is also rewarded in some way. 6mo

TheAromaofBooks It's been a long time since I read the original Little Mermaid, but I feel as though she was also trying to earn a soul? Both heroines are definitely trying to become human, and their path to that end involves earning - and keeping - the love of a man. Both fail in the end, not because they themselves are weak, but because their man is. There probably are some lessons there 😂 6mo

julieclair I listened to the Bunnett translation on LibroVox, but would love to see the Rackham illustrations. 5mo

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lauraisntwilder

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

Someone at our local Publix draws a new, beautiful calendar every month. And now I'm wondering if maybe they're on Litsy, since this month's drawing references Undine, right as we're about to read it for #kindredspiritsbuddyread. I love when things like this happen.

BarbaraJean This is gorgeous... and so appropriate!! 7mo

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LitsyEvents

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

repost for @BarbaraJean

A reminder that next week, the #KindredSpiritsBuddyRead will be discussing Undine, one of our #LMMAdjacent books. LMM first mentions it in her journal on October 24, 1899–Nate brings her a copy!

As always, all are welcome to join in—if you‘re not tagged and you‘d like to be, please let me know!

more info on original post:
https://www.litsy.com/web/post/2739894

#BuddyRead

BarbaraJean Thanks for sharing this! 7mo

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BarbaraJean

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

A reminder that next week, the #KindredSpiritsBuddyRead will be discussing Undine, one of our #LMMAdjacent books. LMM first mentions it in her journal on October 24, 1899–Nate brings her a copy!

As always, all are welcome to join in—if you‘re not tagged and you‘d like to be, please let me know!

Since the book was originally published in German in 1811, there‘s a number of different translations and versions out there. ⤵️

rubyslippersreads, lauraisntwilder, TheAromaofBooks, julieclair

BarbaraJean @TheAromaofBooks and I got carried away discussing different versions in the comments on this post, if anyone is interested!
https://litsy.com/p/MEpzZ2VjWUxL 7mo

BarbaraJean Also: next weekend is super busy for me, so I probably won‘t be able to post questions until late afternoon Pacific Time—at the earliest!—but they‘ll get posted eventually! (edited) 7mo

TheAromaofBooks Yay!! I'm honestly excited about this one haha 7mo

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nosferatu

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

pick

Short and sweet ⛲️

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Bronte_Chintz

Undine | Friedrich de La Motte Fouque

I bought this lovely old copy of Undine when In Hay-on-Wye. I absolutely love it, it has so many lovely illustrations in it that I‘m sure I‘ll bombard you with at some point. #hayonwye #undine

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