Book I parts X-XIX - July 14
#catherbuddyread
Books I-IX seemed to look at wild Nebraska. These chapters look more at the Shimerdas, their rough transition from Bohemian to Nebraska, the stress revealing something about each member. Outside a lightning storm the landscape takes a backseat (Although along the way we lost the wild grasses of the plains). How‘s everyone‘s reading going, what are your thoughts? Hows it fit in the American mythology?
Graywacke @catebutler @crazeedi @Lcsmcat @Tanisha_A @CarolynM @batsy @Caterina @squirrelbrain @Hooked_on_books @jewright 5y
Graywacke Antonia explains this world to Jim briefly, in the last line. “If I live here, like you, that is different. Things will be easy for you. But they will be hard for us.” 5y
Tanisha_A Looks like I won't be able to get to My Antonia soon! 😕 Very distracted right now. 5y
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Graywacke @Tanisha_A no worries, life happens. Hope all is well. 5y
batsy I'm not quite sure about the American mythology context myself, & would love to see others' thoughts on that. But while Cather's writing is lovely & always pulls me in, I'm not drawn to this book as intensely as Pioneers & Lark. Both of those swept me away with the intensity of the narration, but the episodic structure of this book is keeping me at a distance. Which surprised me, since this is the book that's frequently cited as her masterpiece. 5y
jewright I felt terrible that Antonia‘s father couldn‘t make it through the winter and the transition. The neighbors banded together to accomplish the funeral though. Antonia knows she has changed and perhaps not for the better or what her father wanted, but she doesn‘t have much of a choice, and I admire her strength. I‘m trying to figure out why I didn‘t really care for this book when I read it before. I‘m loving the descriptions now. 5y
Hooked_on_books I noticed the same narrative arc you described—the initial depictions of the landscape and now the focusing in on the people and the life. I feel like Antonia‘s father‘s suicide marked a real turning point for tone and character development. I‘m also noticing an increase in anti-immigrant sentiment, which is definitely in keeping with historic US thinking (and current). 5y
Lcsmcat First, let‘s just put it out there that naming the bulls Gladstone and Brigham Young cracked me up! I love the little touches like that that Cather throws in. 5y
Lcsmcat Second, this seems a darker book to me, but probably more realistic. Not all the bright talented girls got out to get an education and follow their dreams. Is this her reaction against the romanticizing of pioneer life (a la the Little House books?) 5y
CarolynM I think the reason for less landscape in this Part is because it is largely set in a very harsh winter. I love the descriptions of the blizzard, and its consequences, for the humans and the animals. I could see and feel that tunnel to the hen house. The people in this novel are so real to me. Quite a contrast with East of Eden @batsy 5y
Graywacke I love this group and this place. These are such great posts. 5y
Graywacke @batsy first, interesting to see the contrast with your and @jewright ‘s reaction to the text. I‘ve been insecure with the idea of this building the American myth ever since someone mentioned to me. (Although I do love the idea of a non-binary woman capturing strong pioneer women being in that vein.) So, ultimately I‘m not sure either. I think it makes sense, but it‘s easier to see it _without_ having read the text. Cather just wasn‘t so simple... 5y
Graywacke @batsy second... no, 3rd... anyway, it‘s not my favorite section of Cather either. But it‘s still really good and it‘s early. (And she‘s already won me over regardless...so she gets a lot of leeway). 5y
Graywacke @jewright Antonia‘s father deserves some reflection. Glad you brought it up. Yeah, it changes a lot. (To @Hooked_on_books too) I thought it changes book completely and gives this section a core. It seems with this the book goes deeper into these characters than anything else, in terms of their religion and culture and core beliefs and, as you noted, their bonds. Also, i‘m not sure the book is working at this point without that event. (edited) 5y
Graywacke @jewright @Hooked_on_books any thoughts on suicide vs murder? (edited) 5y
Graywacke @Hooked_on_books hmm. Anti-immigrant sentiment. Actually I didn‘t pick up that. A little old-world animosity carry over - Bohemians vs ?? Any some adjustment - the awkward English, the old-world pride, the poverty immigration creates. Hmm. Actually I guess it is there...ok, I‘m going to pay more attention to that in the subtext. 5y
Graywacke @Lcsmcat I didn‘t notice to bulls names!! 5y
Graywacke @Lcsmcat hmm. Darker. Please expand on that, if you can. Personally I can‘t tell yet. Immigrant experience is tough. But the arc can go upward. But that last line of this book I think undercuts a lot the fantasy of personal merit. It helps when grandpa has done well. That, to me, is dark, in its way. 5y
Graywacke @CarolynM great point about the blizzard and what that does to their lives. Pretty crazy stuff. And, yeah, these people do feel real. (Side note - I found Jake‘s subtle heroism very interesting. A good role model for Jim within his limitations) 5y
Lcsmcat @CarolynM Great point! She‘s still showing nature, but mostly by its effects on the humans. 5y
Graywacke @batsy “Which surprised me, since this is the book that's frequently cited as her masterpiece.“ A question for you. I‘m thinking a lot about the male narrator. Do you think that might play a role in why this became her main classic? A cultural sexism? (That‘s a thing currently - women authors writing in male voice to gain more widespread acknowledgement...and awards. It‘s a big problem - the unequal public response, I mean) (edited) 5y
Lcsmcat @Graywacke Darker, hmm, an example. Even though Song of the Lark showed poverty, it didn‘t show despair. Johnny could go off on binges, but then everyone would sing and dance and it was ok. The deaths of the lovers in O Pioneers were tragic, but romantically so. There‘s nothing romantic about Antonia‘s situation. 5y
Graywacke @Lcsmcat thanks. I see it now and I‘m with you - the first time she focuses on the bitter and lethal immigrant stress. Mr. Shimerda‘s loss of music and than suicide go together and hit hard. Hmm. Which makes me wonder of we‘re overlooking the role of music and its absence here? Just an idle thought. 5y
Lcsmcat @Graywacke Ooooh, I like that thought. I‘ll have to look for mentions of music as we read on. 5y
CarolynM @Lcsmcat Yes! This one is a much closer look at poverty and also I think isolation. I would almost describe it as anti romantic (this is a reread for me) 5y
Hooked_on_books @Graywacke @batsy I think you may be on to something with the cultural sexism bit. Even in this era, our society celebrates male voices more than those of women, so I could definitely see a historical audience responding more favorably to a male voice. It was (and is) far too easy to relegate a woman‘s voice written by a women to being just for women and dismissed. 5y
Hooked_on_books @Lcsmcat I‘m not sure what was being published at the time about pioneer life so I don‘t know if it‘s a response or not. According to my edition, this book was published in 1918 and the Little House books were not out until the 1930s, so this can‘t be a response to those. But perhaps the culture at the time was romanticizing the pioneers, as we still tend to do. 5y
batsy @Graywacke That's a great question re: sexism and I agree with @Hooked_on_books but I'm also going to keep your question in mind as I read. Perhaps I'll understand more once I get to the end. But it did make me wonder why it's the book with the male narrator that's frequently held up as her best when (thus far, personal opinion) it's not really my favourite from the prairie trilogy. 5y
batsy I appreciate the responses here for making me think and I love the description above about this being Cather's anti-romantic book, in a way. I thought the way she handled Mr. Shimerda's death was brutal and stark in a way that doesn't try to explain away or moralise the death, and so it stays with you (which Steinbeck would have gone all out to do, so yeah @CarolynM I have to say Cather >>> Steinbeck at this point 🙂) 5y
Graywacke @Hooked_on_books ( and @batsy ) that‘s it! She‘s relegated as being “for women” and therefore somehow less. 😡 What would (or did) Virginia Woolf say? 5y
Graywacke @batsy @CarolynM @Lcsmcat - anti-Romantic. !! I‘ll be thinking about that now too. 5y
Graywacke @batsy thanks for that last post 🙂 5y
CarolynM @batsy I love that the characters are allowed to be bad in a very human way, if they behave badly it's for understandable reasons. Take Mrs Shimerda, she's persuaded her husband to leave a place where they had some social position for one where they have none because she thinks there will be more opportunities for her son. They get ripped off by someone they trust. They have nothing. I can sympathise with her jealousy even though I don't like it. 5y
batsy @CarolynM Yes. She allows her characters to breathe, as it were. There's no compulsion to have to tell the reader how to feel about them. 5y
Graywacke @CarolynM @batsy I feel bad for Mrs. Shimerda because I don‘t think she has any idea how her neighbors perceive her. She‘s obviously very proud and vain - and also very tough. Cather creates terrific characters, and the more she writes about them, the more complicated they get. Not good or bad. 5y
Graywacke Also, I think she does really well here with the immigrant stress, awkwardness and depression. I‘m always surprised when I read memoirs how much people lose upon immigration. The loss of familiar culture can really take the life and sense out of people. (I‘m not talking about expats or people moving for work. I mean those who really can‘t go back or have nothing to go back to.) It‘s more extreme here, isolated on these plains. #antiromantic (edited) 5y
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