The Gods Arrive

Wow. This was a brutal section for me. Vance has sacrificed any sympathy I ever had for him. He‘s not young and impulsive anymore. He‘s selfish and cruel. I wish Halo had better options, but she needs to be shed of V.! Thoughts about either V or H‘s behavior? #whartonbuddyread

Graywacke

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 16h

Lcsmcat @mdm139 @jewright @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @Cathythoughts @Crazeedi @Currey @dabbe @emilyhaldi @IMASLOWREADER 16h

Lcsmcat Quotes coming, but I‘ll be out of pocket most of today for my grandson‘s birthday, so talk among yourselves as they used to say on SNL. 😀 16h

See All 23 Comments

Lcsmcat “But it is almost unbearable to be forgotten. The victim invents a thousand pretexts rather than admit that one fact.” 16h

Lcsmcat “This man whom she could no longer make happy, who needed her so little that he could disappear for weeks without giving her a sign—how much longer was she going to burden him with her unwanted devotion?” 16h

Lcsmcat “Ah, happy artists! No wonder they were careless of other people‘s wounds, when they were born with the power to heal their own so easily…” 16h

Lcsmcat And I won‘t quote it, but the cruel words V used when telling H that F had dumped him but he still wanted her and the way he dismissed H‘s intelligence and contributions to his work make me think Wharton must have had some wrenching scenes with her lover! 16h

Currey @Lcsmcat it was so painful to watch Halo twisting herself into a pretzel 🥨 really appearing to believe that her love for Vance wasn‘t worthy and leaving him would be the best thing she could do for him. Meanwhile I‘m thinking “get out of there Halo, you deserve so much better” 14h

Lcsmcat @Currey If everything else hadn‘t done it, his “do I have to use words of one syllable” dig pushed him past redemption in my eyes. Run, Halo, run! 14h

Currey @Lcsmcat I agree that much of the writing appears to come from personal experience but I suspect her sympathy (as a writer) to Vance is that at some point in her life she had played both parts 14h

Lcsmcat @Currey Yes, she is much more understanding of him than I can be. But how she could write him that clearly and see herself in that behavior- wow. That‘s a tough self-reflection. 14h

Graywacke Happy birthday to your grandson! 13h

Graywacke I wonder what drove this Wharton take on jealousy and unrequited devotion. Vance hurt me most when he called Hale an amateur critic. And she handled all his bitter lines so gracefully. He‘s not worthy 13h

Graywacke Why does Frenside always offer such inadequate advice that never helps anyone? 13h

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Frenside is a puzzle. He seems intelligent and caring, but always at a remove. Like he can‘t quite connect. I wonder if that‘s why his advice doesn‘t quite work? 13h

Graywacke @Lcsmcat he is a puzzle. He‘s so nice, though. 13h

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Yes, he is one of the likable ones in this story. 13h

Lcsmcat @Graywacke As to why these themes now, what makes a 70 year old tackle doomed love. It seems like a subject for a young romantic, doesn‘t it? Was she looking back at her relationship with Walter Berry? Maybe trying to justify to herself why it went the way it did? I‘m not sure. 13h

Graywacke @Lcsmcat i think about Berry a lot. Of course, she‘s the Vance artistically. He‘s the Halo. 8h

CarolynM You have summed up my response to this part perfectly. As an aside, I think it was a bit mean of EW to take a swipe at Belgium😆 3h

Lcsmcat @CarolynM 😂 Everyone mistreats Belgium! 1h

jewright Vance is so self-absorbed. My word. In a sense, Flossy treats him just like he treats everyone else in his life. I do wonder if his new book is any good, or if Halo is right. 1h

Lcsmcat @jewright I so want Halo to be right! 44m

20 likes23 comments

Lcsmcat

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

Vance goes off on a wild goose chase sure to get him in trouble. The Delaney‘s, Alders, Mrs. G, and Chris all collide in the south of France. And Wharton is hammering it home that, putting people in different clothes, houses, hotels, etc doesn‘t change who they are. Do you think Halo, back in Forgotten-by-the-Sea (rough translation of Oubli-sur-mer ) knew what she was doing? And if V can‘t write without hurting others, is he a genius or a monster?

Graywacke

Lcsmcat
@KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 1w

Currey @Lcsmcat I keep having the feeling that I am at odds with Wharton herself. That she persists in crowning V genius while leading me to think him a monster. Although at times a spoiled brat, little boy monster. I was surprised to have Floss return in such a sharp form. 1w

See All 19 Comments

Graywacke @Currey exactly - she‘s not at odds with herself as playing on readers expectations - the ruthless artist. I‘m beginning to think we have a magnificent novel coming out of a catastrophic relationship event. 1w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Cathartic to read your post. I‘m enjoying the book. It‘s interesting and easy to stay involved with. Chris is an entertaining devil. But Vance is driving me nuts. So selfish. Halo is essentially an emotion he likes to have. That‘s about all he really sees her as. 1w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat regarding your question - Halo has been lying to herself the entire book. I don‘t think she knows what‘s going on. She‘s stumbling through trying to enjoy what she can, and pretend everything is ok. 1w

Graywacke Highlighted quote - a question: Jealousy could outlive love, then, cling to it like a beast of prey to a carcase for which it no longer hungered? 1w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I highlighted that same quote! Is W working through her own issues here? 1w

Lcsmcat @Currey I can‘t decide if EW thinks Vance is a genius or is portraying him as someone who society thinks is a genius. She‘s clearly showing his dark side. 1w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I agree that Halo is self-deluded. My big question is why. She seems intelligent about other things but she cannot pick men very well. 😂 1w

Currey @Graywacke @Lcsmcat Halo appears to pick her men based on what he can do for her (keep her parents in funds) or what she can do for him (support and nurture his genius). She does get some self satisfaction from being the intellectual and creative support person but she has yet to pick a man that will elevate her, support her, be a real partner to her…. (edited) 1w

Lcsmcat Some quotes - on society: ‘Vance‘s first thought was: “If they only knew enough not to speak!”‘ 1w

Lcsmcat On writing: “All that rot about not writing—why, nobody can write who doesn‘t set his teeth and dig himself in. Your mistake was ever imagining it was fun. Come along; you‘ll write fast enough when you have to.” 1w

Graywacke @Currey on Halo - exactly. She lives through others. 1w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat love those last quotes. Wharton must be working something of herself out here. I wonder on her expat perspective and how the plays with her outlook 1w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke And her life as the divorced wife of one man and the paramour of another. I am unsure of the dates of her relationships, but she would have written this as an older woman - perhaps looking back on her life, both personal and professional? 1w

CarolynM @Currey @Graywacke I‘ve been wondering all through this book and the last how much of EW‘s reality as a writer is in V & how much she is taking from other writers she knows, how much she is making up, or maybe even satirising. I‘m intrigued by all his works in progress almost beginning with their title. It seems so unlikely. I was also surprised by Floss‘s return, it made me wonder if EW originally intended her to have a bigger role in HRB 1w

Lcsmcat @CarolynM Not knowing for sure where this is going, it feels almost Dickensian with all the characters coming together, doesn‘t it? 1w

Lcsmcat @CarolynM EW is definitely satirizing the publishing world and “modern” literary trends (all those digs at Joyce!) but I‘d have to read a biography to put the pieces together of who she knew and might be sending up. 1w

22 likes19 comments

Lcsmcat

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

Vance goes to extremes, although all his extremes are selfish, even when he thinks he‘s being noble. And the double standard is spotlighted clearly. It‘s ok to “know” a man who‘s living nonmarried, but the woman of the couple must be cut dead. Is there any hope for this pair? Especially with Lewis being so poutily stubborn? (Picture is a detail of a painting by Corot of the forest at Fontainebleau.) #whartonbuddyread

Graywacke

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 2w

Lcsmcat Also, so many diss at James Joyce! I don‘t think Wharton liked his work. 😂 2w

See All 25 Comments

Currey @Lcsmcat I am not sure that Wharton liked many other authors. She had a long strong relationship with Henry James evidently and other writers mention Andre Gide and Sinclair Lewis - by the time that this book was published would they have been considered “old school”. I don‘t know enough. 2w

Lcsmcat @Currey I think they would have been, and Wharton may be indulging in the older generation‘s game of “everything is going to pot.” 🤷🏻‍♀️ 2w

Currey @Lcsmcat I was able to take Vance a bit better this round. He was still completely selfish but at least he had some thought of Halo. Halo on the other hand; where is our feisty witty and oh so capable woman gone to? She is just “cut” and bowed it seems. She is now shown as capable at finding a place to live instead of intellectually capable. 2w

Lcsmcat @Currey Yes, Halo has become so domestic. I wish she were willing to confront Vance more, but her position is so precarious that I understand why she doesn‘t. One of the quotes I highlighted: “It seemed to her that she was gazing at herself stripped and exposed, between these two men who were disputing for her possession.” 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat that line struck me too. Halo is managing Vance the same way she managed Tarrant - strengthening them at her own expense. I do like the Halo who found Vance ruining any chance of her divorce romantic. It was kind of funny. @Currey 2w

Graywacke I like this section a lot better. It flowed, was more interesting. Halos fears and Vances realities both clash and have parallels. It‘s interesting to me. No Vance isn‘t cheating, but those sandaled feet showed he was susceptible. 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat Wharton hated stream of consciousness. Some quotes from a book on Hemingway and Faulkner: Edith Wharton, nearing the end of her career, wrote to a friend in 1934: "What a country! With Faulkner and Hemingway acclaimed as the greatest American novelists, & magazine editors still taking the view they did when I began to write! Brains & culture seem nonexistent from one end of the social scale to the other, & half ? 2w

Graywacke ? the morons yell for filth, & the other half continue to put pants on piano-legs." 2w

Graywacke She also is quoted as complaining that stream of consciousness was sort of an incomplete novel. The writer had to put them together before they become a novel. And these writers just neglected to do this 2w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I have to agree with Wharton on stream of consciousness. I struggled through Joyce in school but have no desire to read him now! And the whole art scene “between the wars” was full of experiments like that. There was a rejection of form that went along with philosophical nihilists like Sartre. It makes her comment about filth & piano legs true and funny. 2w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Halo played the scene as romantic, but there‘s the bit when Vance sees her sleeping after he comes back that I‘ll quote below that makes me afraid for her. 2w

Lcsmcat “When he pulled himself out of his brooding, and went to bed, Halo was asleep. He had carried in the lamp from the studio, and stood shading it with his hand while he looked down on her. Usually, when she slept, her features regained their girlish clearness; and she was once more the Halo Spear who had lit up the dark old library at the Willows; 2w

Lcsmcat but now youth and laughter were gone, her face was worn and guarded. “This is the real Halo,” he thought; and he knew it was the effort to hide her anxiety behind a laughing welcome which had left those furrows between her eyes.” 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat she‘s sacrificing herself. It‘s hard to watch. He only sort of gets it before he‘s distracted again 2w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat regarding stream of consciousness - I haven‘t read Joyce, but I love when Faulkner uses it. He does it brilliantly. (Also, interesting that Faulkner‘s name was so prominent in 1934. He wasn‘t selling. Although he was better known in France, where Wharton was. than the US.) 2w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I find Faulkner easier than Joyce, but maybe that‘s because I‘m southern, not Irish. 😀 I just listen to he words as if one of my elder relatives was talking. 2w

Currey @Lcsmcat @Graywacke I am with you. I am not against stream of consciousness if it is effective and with Faulkner it is “voice”. I appreciate Faulkner. I have only read one Joyce and that was the easy one: Portrait of a young man. So I don‘t know about him really. 2w

jewright I like Faulkner much better than Joyce. I‘m not really sure why. 2w

Lcsmcat @jewright That seems to be the consensus here. Do you suppose people who like Cather and Wharton all prefer Faulkner to Joyce? 2w

jewright Vance is a little less annoying in Book 2. At least he finally stands up for Halo at the end by going to demand answers of Lewis. Vance is just so dense that he drives me crazy. 2w

jewright @Lcsmcat Perhaps Faulkner is easier to understand? I feel like there‘s more plot to his works and less just abstract musing. 2w

Lcsmcat @jewright I didn‘t feel like Vance was standing up for Halo when he went to Lewis. It felt disrespectful to go without her knowledge or desire. He just can‘t seem to think about anyone but himself. 2w

21 likes25 comments

Graywacke

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

#whartonbuddyread

Must be on the shortlist of the worst covers ever. I‘ve been reading this for a week, but forgot to post here. ☺️ Wharton is making her readers uncomfortable so far. Harried mistress renationalizing away all her obvious problems. I‘ve read book I of IV, on pace with our buddy read.

Lcsmcat OMG! That‘s an awful cover! 3w

dabbe Wowza! That is one ugly cover! 😱 3w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat @dabbe It‘s lesson in how to make a graphic designer cringe. And they certainly have not read the or anything else by Wharton. 3w

See All 10 Comments

quietlycuriouskate It's hard to believe someone actually designed that monstrosity. 3w

xicanti I see this cover and I assume it‘s attached to a self-published conspiracy theory about how aliens will soon return to answer all mankind‘s questions. 3w

Lcsmcat @xicanti 😂🤣😂 3w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Anyone with eyes would cringe! 3w

Graywacke @quietlycuriouskate I want to agree. But it‘s not really that hard for me to imagine possible situations… 3w

Graywacke @xicanti so close! 😂 @Lcsmcat I feel a little bad for all the cringing i have caused here. 3w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Unless you‘ve changed careers and designed that cover art, you are blameless. 😀 3w

40 likes10 comments

Lcsmcat

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

To quote from the website The Mount “In a rare interview, Wharton listed The Gods Arrive as one of her five favorites. The other four were Hudson River Bracketed, The Custom of the Country, Summer, and The Children.” Are we going to see E. W. more intimately in this? It‘s also the only sequel she ever wrote so she must have loved these characters. But she doesn‘t let us think for long that this will be a rare happy relationship! #whartonbuddyread

Graywacke

Lcsmcat Are you surprised by H‘s tearing up the telegram? By V‘s behavior with his new friend and towards H? And, of course, I‘ve got quotes, because the prose is delicious. (edited) 3w

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 3w

See All 22 Comments

Lcsmcat “The clever young writers he had known in New York had read only each other and “Ulysses”;” 3w

Lcsmcat ‘And she recalled a whimsical axiom of George Frenside‘s: “No passion can survive a woman‘s seeing her lover hold his fork in the wrong way.”‘ 3w

Lcsmcat Of Halo‘s mother: “She was a Lorburn of Paul‘s Landing, and people of pre-Revolutionary stock, however emancipated their sympathies, conformed to tradition in their conduct.” 3w

Lcsmcat Forgot to mention, the pic is from a first edition that was for sale online. Not my copy, unfortunately. 😀 3w

Currey @Lcsmcat So delicious to fall back into Wharton‘s prose until Vance‘s friend turns up. At that moment I remembered how much I did not like Vance. Wharton obviously found him intriguing, using him to show the roots and eccentricity of genius. 3w

Lcsmcat @Currey I‘m glad I‘m not the only one. I really don‘t like him. 3w

Graywacke This is one ugly Vance. What a prick he is from this perspective. And all the time conventional passionless American lingo. “I don‘t give a straw” or something similar. He‘s just an irritating cold self centered person. @Currey 3w

Graywacke It‘s an interesting dwelling in this Halo‘s mind. Is she the same, and this is a further evolution? From a shining muse, to a lost wife, to a conventional-minded mistress constantly rationalizing away her problems. It‘s sad to see. I hope she shows us some grit before whatever tragedy we have in store. 3w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat that‘s an interesting list Wharton chose. No Age of Innocence or House of Mirth. Summer doesn‘t surprise me. It‘s both a reader and writer‘s joy. As for naming her last three books - that‘s either just her mood at the time she was close to these, or some 1930‘s style self-marketing. They clearly aren‘t her best work (no matter what the later-Wharton-lover critics say ☺️) 3w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke I wonder if authors are able to judge what posterity will consider their “best” works? It is an odd list. 3w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke re Vance - do you think he is worse in this book? I feel like he‘s being true to character but H is just now seeing this side of him. 3w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat we were so Vance-focused in the last book, it‘s difficult to say if he‘s different. His dialogue is different from this perspective. All 1930-ish American male. Not the innocent we knew. He was terrible in book one, too. 3w

Lcsmcat @Graywacke Do you think the change in Vance‘s dialog is intentional- he‘s trying to fit in with a different set of people - or do you think it‘s because Wharton‘s focus has shifted? 3w

Graywacke @Lcsmcat I don‘t know. It certainly distances him from us, the reader. But i don‘t know what to make of it. 3w

Currey How old would Wharton have been when she wrote this one? Perhaps she was attempting something “modern” in vernacular, and simply missed. 3w

Lcsmcat @Currey She‘d have been around 70, I think. And living abroad might have meant that she picked up slang from movies or magazines and it didn‘t come naturally. 3w

CarolynM I was a bit surprised to find H as V‘s lover in such a short space of time. I‘d have thought she‘d be a bit more circumspect. I was willing to cut V some slack for his self absorption in the the previous book, because of his youth & background, but now that it is manifesting as total disrespect for H I am disgusted with him. I hope H finds a way to get through to him, or ditches him, fast! 3w

CarolynM @Graywacke I would agree with EW about The Custom of the Country (I think that‘s my favourite) and Summer but the other choices are interesting. I wonder if her liking for HRB has anything to do with her poking a bit of fun at the literary and publishing worlds she‘d been living in? 3w

Graywacke @CarolynM maybe she as poking fun. But i think she really liked her later fiction. She was apparently very driven. V is awful. I think Halo needs to chart her own path and leave in Spain. 3w

28 likes22 comments

Lcsmcat

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

Reminder to grab your Complete Wharton (or a copy of the novel if you can find it) because discussion starts next week. #whartonbuddyread @Graywacke @LitsyEvents

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 1mo

Graywacke Have my copy. Im ready! 1mo

AllDebooks Got mine ready! 4w

29 likes1 stack add4 comments

LitsyEvents

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

The #whartonbuddyread has spoken, and we'll continue with Halo and Vance starting October 5th. I'm looking forward to seeing how it ends!

Currey First Wharton book we have read that the library doesn‘t have. Telling? 1mo

Lcsmcat @Currey Did you find a copy yet? 1mo

Currey @Lcsmcat oh yes, no problem. They got it from the college library. I was just surprised that my local didn‘t carry it as they have had everything we have read so far. 1mo

Lcsmcat @Currey I admit it‘s one I‘d never heard of before. But I have an ebook version of the Complete Edith Wharton so I am not always aware of how difficult/easy it is to find a particular work. 1mo

38 likes4 comments

Lcsmcat

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

The #whartonbuddyread has spoken, and we‘ll continue with Halo and Vance starting October 5th. I‘m looking forward to seeing how it ends!

Graywacke

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 2mo

TheBookHippie Oh good!!! 2mo

See All 8 Comments

AllDebooks Thank you x 2mo

Graywacke Awesome. Thank you! 2mo

Liz_M @LitsyEvents 2mo

Lcsmcat @Liz_M Thanks - you would think I‘d remember to tag the account. 🙄 2mo

CarolynM Thanks! 2mo

26 likes1 stack add8 comments

Lcsmcat

The Gods Arrive | Edith Wharton

Do you want to dive right in to the sequel, or wait until October? Full disclosure, it‘s 5 books, about 440 pages. Vote in the comments below with your preferred start date: September 21 or October 5. #whartonbuddyread

Graywacke

Lcsmcat @KathyWheeler @kspenmoll @Leftcoastzen @LitStephanie @llwheeler @Louise @rubyslippersreads @SamAnne @sarahbellum @Suet624 @TheBookHippie @cindyash 2mo

Lcsmcat
@mdm139 @jewright @AllDebooks @amysisson @Ann_Reads @arubabookwoman @batsy @BookishTrish @CarolynM @catebutler @Catherine_Willoughby @Cathythoughts @Crazeedi @Currey @dabbe @emilyhaldi @IMASLOWREADER 2mo

AllDebooks I'm so ready for more Halo and Vance!! I would prefer the October start date, please. 2mo

See All 13 Comments

Graywacke Oct 5 🙂 thanks for planning! 2mo

Currey Oct 5 please and yes, thank you @Lcsmcat and @Graywacke for organizing 2mo

Currey @Lcsmcat @Graywacke By the way, did we ever read The Bunner Sisters? Did I miss that? 2mo

Graywacke @Currey i had to look it up. We‘ve been using a list from The Mount website that doesn‘t include The Bunner Sisters. So skipped over it. (Published 1916). We will need to add it in. 2mo

Lcsmcat @Graywacke @Currey In my Complete Works of Edith Wharton The Bunner Sisters is listed as a short story. I haven‘t looked at its length so maybe it‘s a novella? 2mo

LitStephanie I would prefer October 5 so I have time to read the first one and catch up with you guys. What is it called? 2mo

CarolynM I‘ve been travelling and reading very little so I still haven‘t started the first book. I‘d like to try to catch up and join you for this one so I‘d prefer the later date. Thanks Linda🙂 2mo

Lcsmcat @LitStephanie The one we just finished is Hudson River Bracketed. 2mo

jewright I‘m up for whatever dates. 2mo

Currey @Lcsmcat Yes, my list has it as a novella. And we can slip it in anytime it works for everyone. I just thought I missed it somehow. 2mo

24 likes13 comments

Welcome to Litsy!

Trending Hashtags

Trending Books